Was Isaac SEXUALLY ABUSED?

by Gamaliel 6 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Gamaliel
    Gamaliel

    Here is the second in my "WILD SPECULATION" series, the last one being:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/49483/1.ashx Did the Prophet Daniel Commit SUICIDE? (based on evidence of his increasingly desperate chronology adjustments)

    We already know that Abraham's household was abusive (allegedly). If you look deep enough, almost every story could be a story of spousal abuse or child abuse.

    Example 1: When Sarah couldn't get pregnant she offers her own servant Hagar, but when Hagar gets pregnant, Sarah "begins to despise her" (Gen 16:4), claims Hagar despises her, and basically can't handle the tensions of this new situation. Abraham lets Sarah know Hagar is at Sarah's "disposal" so she throws the pregnant women out to fend for herself in the "wilderness." Sarah "began to humiliate her so that she ran away from her" (v.6) But Hagar ends up turning around and coming back to the abusive household. (Abraham at 99 got circumcised as part of a deal with God to get more children. In fact, Ishmael at 13 years old had to get his foreskin cut off, and so did (v.27) "all the men of his household, anyone born in the house and anyone purchased with money from a foreigner.")

    Example 2: Genesis 19, throws in a story about Abraham's nephew (son of his brother) Lot. We find Lot protecting a couple of strangers from a "mob" ranging from "boys to old men" who kept yelling for Lot to "bring them out to us that we may have sex with them." (v.5) Lot says: "Do not act badly. Please, I have two virgin daughters, please have sex with them instead. Please let me bring my girls out, and then you can do whatever you please with them." By the end of chapter 19 those two daughters are getting Lot drunk and having sex with him. They both got pregnant.

    Example 3: Chapter 20. Abraham while going through King Abimelech's territory is afraid they might kill him because of his wife. Gen 20:11 makes it sound as if Abraham had some unfounded paranoia. Anyway Abraham repeatedly claimed that Sarah was only his sister (v.2), so that the King sent and took Sarah. According to v.13, Abraham said Sarah was supposed to play along and say Abraham was her brother. It all worked out just fine, however when the King dreamed that he she was owned by another, and he has to give her back or else "know that you will positively die, you and all who are yours." Rich Abraham somehow leveraged this situation so that Abimelech offered him land, sheep, cattle, men slaves, and women slaves. Sarah got 1,000 silver pieces.

    Example 4: Isaac's name means "laughter" but it can also mean "make fun of (derisive laughter)" or even "make sexual foreplay (secret laughter)." The name is onomatopoeic

    But my point in this example is this: Ishmael was last identified at 13 years old, but might be as old as 18 or 19 when Isaac gets weaned at about age 5. Genesis 21:9 is usually translated along the lines of "And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.

    The Septuagint (LXX) change to wording to show that the tsachaq was definitely directed specifically against Isaac and the Targums and other commentaries dance around the idea that it was something more offensive. Even the Aid book says on p. 841 "Some translations say that Ishmael was only 'playing' with Isaac...However tsa-hhaq' can also have an offensive connotation."

    I'm conjecturing, as others have, that the connotation is that Ishmael abused Isaac. In Galatians 4:29, Paul thought of whatever it was as representing "abuse" or "persecution" (NWT).

    Example 5: Terrorizing Isaac by tying him to an altar of sacrifice and pulling a knife on him has already been commented on enough.

    Gamaliel

  • gumby
    gumby
    By the end of chapter 19 those two daughters are getting Lot drunk and having sex with him. They both got pregnant.

    That was an accident Gamaliel. Havent you ever gotten so drunk that your own daughter could come on to you and you would proceed? How about Noah....he liked sleeping with his daughters too.

    How about Jacob who spent several years with Laban and his daughters but was fooled into sleeping with the wrong one. Gee, anyone could be fooled like that don't ya think?

    Anyone who believes these bullshit stories needs to have their frickin head examined! I believed all these stories too at one time......but never had my head examined......no wonder I'm a bastard!

    Gumby

  • Gamaliel
    Gamaliel

    gumby,

    Anyone who believes these bullshit stories needs to have their frickin head examined! I believed all these stories too at one time......but never had my head examined......no wonder I'm a bastard!

    LOL!

    I hope I'm not offending anyone by the way I read/comment on these stories. It looks like I didn't offend you, at least. My only motivation is the fact that so many on this board seem to be so overly concerned about the dreams/ravings of some prophet 2000 years ago. Of course, I was there too. But I think I've got good reasons to be free of it.

    It's an old, tired story that gets played out incessantly on these boards, but we've got people talking seriously about whether a beast, an image, or an image of a beast somehow means we're destined to suffer some predicted fate that includes violence, war, persecution. People start to fear that it's all predetermined and there's nothing anyone can do about it. It's dangerous thinking. Putting the Bible in perspective is the first step towards reasoning together.

    Gamaliel

  • gumby
    gumby
    Putting the Bible in perspective is the first step towards reasoning together

    Amen bro !

    Sadly most christians will not consider this option. People believe what they WANT to believe..........wheather it makes sense or not.

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    Gam: ..."Chapter 20. Abraham while going through King Abimelech's territory is afraid they might kill him because of his wife. Gen 20:11 makes it sound as if Abraham had some unfounded paranoia. Anyway Abraham repeatedly claimed that Sarah was only his sister (v.2), so that the King sent and took Sarah"....

    Oddly enough that same King goes thru a repeat of that deception incident with Isaac doesnt he? In Genesis 26 v 7. I assume it is the same King Abimelech as that one misled by Abraham.

    Not only is lying Kosher for Abraham and Isaac but it works in the extreme for the benefit of Jacob. The example in Genesis 27 where Jacob outright lies as to his identity, to his blind father, so as to get the patriachal blessing is most noteworthy.

    I wonder what it all means?

  • tazmaniac
    tazmaniac

    I never really understood or promoted the WT view that Jehovah HAD to allow the early forefathers to have additional wives (even to the extreme) in order to populate the nation. I mean....jeez...ya cant take blood to save your life but you could, under certain circumstances, boink as many wives, concubines etc because it populated the nation. Then another was the poor slob that got caught screwing his neighbors wife would get dragged to some public place and he and his paramour would be stoned. Meanwhile David screws Bathsheba, has her husband sent on a death mission yet David is not stoned.....nope......because his lineage had to be preserved because messiah was coming thru his line. I mean come on. The king had to read the law in a undertone...day and night. I guess David missed that day. Oh well, Thats my rant and rave for the day. ........ Taz

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek
    Noah slept with his daughters?! Must have missed that scripture, do tell

    No, it was Lot who slept with his daughters because they got him drunk. Noah got drunk and naked of his own volition and cursed his son and his offspring for seeing him in such a condition. Abraham married his sister - we don't know whether he was drunk or not.

    Ah, those "faithful men of old".

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