A question for peaceniks and warmongers…

by Max Divergent 4 Replies latest jw friends

  • Max Divergent
    Max Divergent

    After all the discussion recenly and the seeming welcome the troops got in Baghdad I'd be interested in your thoughts...

    Q: Would you support your country's government if they proposed committing troops and tax money to a long-term program with a coalition of the willing* to:

    1. Remove all the very worst and most aggressive regimes from controlling sovereign nations by all necessary means which may include initiating war

    and

    2. Attempt to reestablish those countries as economically viable and politically free societies?

    …assuming that:

    1. A majority of countries object to the program, as they do to the action in Iraq

    2. A prime motivation is assumed to be stimulation of global economic growth by opening new markets

    Could be interesting… Hope to hear from you

    Cheers, Max

    * Presumably US lead and UK backed

    Garwd... can't get the post right tonight!!!

    Nah... there's somthing up with the board... whole words are just going missing...

  • Realist
    Realist

    oh my that is quite a hypothetical scenario.

    i assume you mean US lead but without US economical interests lurking behind the scenes?!

    in theory yes i would support such a plan. who would oppose freedom and prosperity in all the world?

    in practise i cannot support it.

    a) because some opponents are too strong...take NK for instance.

    b) because wars are always faught for only one reason...economical interests.

    c) it may be very debateable what is a bad regime and what isn't. depending on whom you ask....palestinians or israelis you will get different answers.

  • Max Divergent
    Max Divergent

    Hi Realist - Thanks for your thoughtful response... Let me play devil's advocate for a moment....

    i assume you mean US lead but without US economical interests lurking behind the scenes?!

    Not at all... say free market economic interests are right up front. Economic interests have brought those of us in the West prosperity and a lifestyle of such luxury and freedom that it's beyond the imagination of most of the humans who've ever lived....

    This system works for people of all cultures. Why hide that those benifits are bing offered to the most oppressed and disadvantaged people on earth? How about ''The de Beers Battle for Zimbabwe'' or ''The GM-Daewoo Korean Conflict''?

    a) because some opponents are too strong...take NK for instance

    Are they really? When they aquire nuclear weapons then the cost of war will increase tremendoulsy, but they're still a 3rd world conscript army of poorly trained, equipped and fed troops. In any case, should it really matter given the outcome is (or is expected to be) global peace and prosperity?

    b) because wars are always faught for only one reason...economical interests.

    But what's wrong with that given that the free market economy brings benifits to everyone - it's unevenly distributed, but we're probably all far more prosperous than our parents were at our ages.

    c) it may be very debateable what is a bad regime and what isn't. depending on whom you ask....palestinians or israelis you will get different answers.
    True enough, this can be hard. But using this as an example... deal with them both. Enforce the Oslo Agreement by force if nessasary on which ever side dosn't abide by the timetable. Advances anyone? Cheers, Max
  • Realist
    Realist

    interesting proposals

    about NK...i think you underestimate them...they perhaps have already nukes and even without that...they have a highly trained army equipped with chinese weapons. have you seen their troops march? there is a gigantic difference between these guys and the arab loosers. also the terrain is much more difficult. that would be a massive war with millions getting killed.

    now lets talk about the economical possibility of global prosperity.

    i am not sure if this is possible (although i sure hope it is). part of our wealth comes from abusing the 3rd world. we take their ressources for 1/10 of the price that we should pay them. our economy is partially dependant on that. we also have to consider the higher competition. right now the 3rd world has to import everything they use. in the future they would produce their goods themselfs. also the US is currently using 25% !!! of the worlds oil. without switching to modern technologies (my heart goes to nuclear fusion! ) i am afraid we would be in trouble.

    i like the idea of clearly stating why the various wars are faught. the question is however if the public (especially in the US) would be willing to pay 100 billion dollars if they new the true reasons. would they advocate the war if bush would clearly say its all about oil, strategical reasons and the weapons industry? i don't think so.

  • Max Divergent
    Max Divergent

    Hi Realist - Thanks again for your interest...

    about NK...i think you underestimate them...they perhaps have already nukes and even without that...they have a highly trained army equipped with chinese weapons. have you seen their troops march?

    Well, yeah... they certainly look impressive, although in reality they may not be well enough trained or equipped to fight a modern war. I read recently that the government teaches the people that food aid they receive with the Old Glory stamped on the side is a supplication from the weak Americans to avoid being invaded and taken over by NK. Perhaps there's an element of bluff involved? On the economic side, well... there'd be change. Bring it on though. I'm told it would work.

    also the US is currently using 25% !!! of the worlds oil. without switching to modern technologies (my heart goes to nuclear fusion! ) i am afraid we would be in trouble.

    Mmm... getting a law up that reduces oil use and increases energu efficiency has a hard time in the Congress (or White House... or both... or...whatever) Mmm... Maybe the US could invade itself and free it from the grip of Exxon et al? (Just joking.... really....)

    would they advocate the war if bush would clearly say its all about oil, strategical reasons and the weapons industry? i don't think so.

    That's not really the point.

    Depending who you talk to it's either a law of nature or an ideological position that free trade and free market economcics are the right system for everyone everywhere and are always benificial for teaching, for reproving and for setting things straight with all the countries of the earth that don't have command economies (as dictator ruled countries tend to).... it's just how people are, they say.

    So, the oil benifits or bomb makers profits are useful, but the opening up of markets and the increase in the amount of available capital is massivly more valuable than that.Well, that's what the economic rationalists seem to say anyhow...

    Oh well, it's bed time for me...

    Regards, Max

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