I just discussed the new UN speculation with my Dad

by Gamaliel 6 Replies latest jw friends

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  Gamaliel

  From about the time of my DA/DF, my father went several years without saying a word to me -- and my mother held out a year or so longer than my father. At my uncle's funeral my mother even pulled my father away while he was actually apologizing to me for never having spoken to me since the time of my then-recent near death accident. (A car trying to run a light went around the stopped car in front of him and ran up on the sidewalk to offer me my first and only "out of body" experience.) I was in the hospital and disabled for weeks -- and yet no call from my loving JW parents, thanks to their trust in the holy spirit guidance of the WTS/FDS.

  They've gotten 100% better -- and so have I. I still love them, but at least when I recall the experience above, I don't have to feel too badly about "troubling" them over their questionable doctrines.

  I called him today. It started out with an expected conversation about a computer issue. I mentioned the "police state" here in parts of NYC, and he asked what I thought about the war. Wow! My parents have talked about mostly fluff for a couple years now, primarily so that they can stay on good terms with the grandkids, I figured. Still, I've never been asked an opinion about something political. That's tantamount to being asked my opinion about religion, which they can never do. So I went for it.

  Dad already knew about Cheney's (and Schultz'?) monetary interests in this war, and I moved on past oil and restructuring dollars. I mentioned a Website that showed how Rumsfeld and other right-wing Bush supporters had already been pushing (since before the Bush/Gore election) for the fall of Iraq, the weakening of non-anglo European alliances and the impotence of the UN.

  When he agreed to the UN, I apologized in advance for bringing up issues I'm not supposed to talk about and said that I have heard rumors for months now that the Wt will soon be dropping the UN issue due to recent events. (I think he still knows next to nothing about the UN/NGO issue.) He was uninterested until I mentioned that the 6/1/03 Wt says "we know who Gog is, but we don't know who will attack us." The UN is conspicuous by its absence. (Thanks UnDisfellowshiped for your recent post: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/50250/1.ashx ).

  Since he was still listening I managed another volley. I said, maybe it's just speculation, but I think this information is accurate because when I had contacts that told me in 1984 that the "generation" would need to be redefined after 1914+70 years, it was redefined by the end of 1985.

  We still managed to end the conversation cordially. He turned it back to the computer issue.

  Gamaliel
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  bluesapphire

  Gamaliel, that was very prudent on your part. You said just enough to get him to think. I bet he couldn't sleep last night lol!
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  metatron

  Amen, Gamaliel

  drip, drip, drip a little at a time

  metatron
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  Big Tex

  Their silence is defeaning, eh Gamliel? I hadn't heard that about the UN. You know, in a few years I have a feeling they will be redefining most if not all of Freddie's old speculations and prophecies.
• 

  sf

  'Progress, NOT perfection'...I learned that during my stint in AA. Yet it holds true for this too. It's a delicate process.

  This has been a good and productive day all around today with this new light shining so brightly. Let's keep spreading THE GOOD NEWS people! (I actually can't wait for them to knock on my door now so as I may 'share')

  See, the thing is this...most jws haven't seen this 'new light' yet. Unless they come here and/ or yahoo chat room; where my profile is chocked full of all the latest and greatest 'items', they won't WITNESS it until it's in their hands. So today, as I read it, it was noticably disturbing some of the jws in the room. In which they left soon after the reading started. They knew I WAS reading their precious watchtower krap and SERVING FINE SPIRITUAL POISON IN DUE SEASON. It was so awesome to see this. Wish more could have.

  sKally, singing..."when the walls come tumbling down, when the walls go rumblin' rumblin', when the walls...go crumblin', crumblin"...IS the day I can breath...again, klass
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  Gamaliel,

  That's great to hear that you were discussing these things with your father.

  I just wanted to give a basic overview of the new speculation about the Final Attack on the Jehovah's Witnesses at Armageddon, as described in the new 6-01-03 Watchtower:

  1: For decades past, the Watchtower Society has taught that it was the United States and Britain ("The False Prophet" of Revelation) that will try to force everyone to worship and serve the U.N. and that Jehovah would cause the U.N. Organization and some of its most prominent Member-Nations to completely destroy Babylon the Great (False Religion), then the U.N. Organization would be in control of the entire world, and THEN, Satan [Gog] would cause the exact same U.N. Organization and prominent Member-Nations to attack the Jehovah's Witnesses, and then Jehovah and Jesus would destroy the U.N., along with all other Nations on Earth.

  2: Now, the 6-01-03 Watchtower said that we do not know who will attack the Jehovah's Witnesses at Armageddon, and that the Bible does not give details about who it will be, and that Jehovah's Witnesses should not even speculate about who will attack the Jehovah's Witnesses at Armageddon. The 6-01-03 Article does say that it will be the new "King of the North" that attacks the Jehovah's Witnesses at Armageddon, but that we do not know who that is.

  3: Basically, it looks like the "King of the North" has replaced the U.N. as being the one who begins, who organizes, and who leads the attack against the Jehovah's Witnesses.

  4: I don't even know if the Watchtower Society is teaching that the U.N. Organization will destroy False Religion anymore.

  5: The U.N. is not even mentioned as having anything to do with the Final Attack on the JWs in the entire 6-01-03 Article!
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  Gamaliel

  UD,

  It's a great thread you started over there...

  I don't agree 100% with all the statements made in that thread about the 6/1 article because the WT will always be able to point to "UN political connections" for any expected political moves made against global religion and then the JWs. They expect the UN/beast/horns to be behind the attack on JWs, but have never been adamant about UN being directly involved in the JW attack, which they expect from the King of the North. In general the K.N. vs. K.S. conflict has always boiled down to Totalitarian vs. Democratic world powers (or coalitions). It's a safe bet that they can still get some mileage out of that.

  The 6/1 article does fit a fairly recent pattern, however, of "Watchtower weaseling" for their own political, legal and public relations agenda. I wouldn't be surprised to hear a few more public talks that express the UN issue in the same old 1950s-1980s terms -- same as it ever was. I would expect to see almost nothing any more in print, however. It doesn't mean that they'll stop believing. It will just fade out, but there will be a vague collective memory that there were things the WTS used to speak of that shows they still have special knowledge. Scientology, for example, has a lot of esoteric teachings that you'd be hard-pressed to find in hard copy, but some die-hard believers will always think that the understanding of those teachings is only accessible to a few "higher-ups"-- and this validates the intellectual side of that Church's power structure or hierarchy.

  The more things change...

  Gamaliel