The irony of 2 Tim 3:16-17

by pseudoxristos 8 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • pseudoxristos
    pseudoxristos
    All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

    Most scholars don't think Paul wrote 2 Timothy.

    Every time I here a Witness quote this verse, I will be reminded of the irony.

    -Undisputed-

    1 Thessalonians

    Galatians

    1 Corinthians

    2 Corinthians

    Philippians

    Philemon

    Romans

    -Disputed-

    Ephesians (may be authentic)

    Colossians (may be authentic)

    2 Thessalonians (may be authentic)

    1 Timothy (probably not authentic)

    2 Timothy (probably not authentic)

    Titus (probably not authentic)

    Hebrews (not authentic)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Pauline_epistles

  • fastJehu
    fastJehu

    It doesn't matter who wrote it. The fact is that the writer had only the "Old Testament" available at that time and therefore can only have meant this.

  • sir82
    sir82

    Isn't there an alternate way of translating that verse, something like "the scriptures which are inspired by God are beneficial..."

    ...implying that some of the scriptures were not inspired by God, so their value may be lesser.

    Or am I misremembering?

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Just as an aside, it is my feeling that the evidence against Paul being the writer of 2 Thess, is much heavier than anything claimed to support his authorship.

    As to "all scripture........" it is my thought that Paul would not just have rated the Tanakh, the Hebrew Bible as we call it, as "Inspired" but would more than likely have given equal weight to the thoughts of earlier Rabbis not contained within that "Bible", we are shown in the Gospels that Jesus did just that, his " Golden Rule" being a direct rip off of the words of Rabbi Hillel.

    But as pointed out above, these writings were all he would have had, the Gospels being written years after his death, and he certainly did not think of his own writings as "inspired of god".

    But of course the " all Scripture......." quote comes from the pen of a writer pretending to be Paul, Prof Bart Ehrmann calls these Letters not just pseudepigraphy, but " Fakes".

  • Half banana
    Half banana

    Pseudoxristos, the very expression of the sentiment that "all scripture is inspired" i.e. all (christian) writings are inspired, whoever wrote them, would have been the forger's plea or justification to include his own work!

    Fast Jehu, I would like to mention that when the text was written, perhaps in the second century CE, whoever wrote it, would likely be referring to writings other than the canonical Hebrew scriptures. Bear in mind that by then the Jews had been defeated and dispersed and thoroughly secularised, Jerusalem was renamed Aelia Capitolina by the Romans and out of bounds to Jews. The rabbinic schools were the custodians for textual tradition but religious Jewry was at a low ebb and suffering low status.

    If we look at the Koine Greek "all scripture" pasa graphe, could in today's language also be translated as "all literature" with the inference of all writings of a christian or uplifting nature, as opposed to say legal writing, historical records or written documents as a function of the Empire.

    The first thing to remember is that irrespective of meaning, 2 Tim 3;16 cannot possibly be a reference to the Bible, which is a fourth century compilation of texts by the Catholic Church. (Would the Watchtower please take note!) What was available to the educated christian was much literature which did not get into the Bible canon. Bear in mind too that most but not all christians were humble folk including slaves and therefore could not read.

    The following are some of the works available which would therefore constitute "all literature" or "all scripture" to the followers of the Lord. (The name "Jesus" incidentally was not yet attached to the "saviour" in literature until later in the development of christianity). These writings reflect some the promiscuous beliefs of pre-Catholic enforcement of orthodoxy.

    • Titus
    • Apocalypse of Peter
    • Secret Book of James
    • Preaching of Peter
    • Gospel of the Ebionites
    • Gospel of the Nazoreans
    • The Shepherd of Hermas.-- and many more.
  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Thank you Half Banana, I have never seen a good explanation from the JW Org as to why they accept as their approved Canon that decided upon by a Church that they consider to be " Apostate", they don't seem to like the writings of those they consider to be Apostates now, or accept any others from any other time period.

    Yet they claim this Apostate Canon is Inspired of God ! Crazy people aren't they ? And inconsistent hypocrites.

  • JoenB75
    JoenB75

    Doubtlessly many letters were written by Paul's subordinates

  • Mehlisue
    Mehlisue

    The IRONY I find is this. Few think about it or place themselves in the time period to understand and glean what was being said. Paul told young Tim, The scriptures were inspired and good for teaching and reproving. First? The only scriptures were the OLD TESTAMENT as the new was not written. So take that off the agenda. Second, the vast MAJORITY of Old Testament is testimony of what god did in response to some bad choices and conduct among the Hebrews. So yep you can learn a lot from reading of the Hebrew mess ups and not follow them. For instance, today's preachers teach on the book of JOB. The entire Book is a account of wrong thinking. At the end of the Book, a young lad begins to straighten out the elders speaking that they were all WRONG. Then in comes GOD to finish the discourse. So why do so many preachers continue to quote what the men were saying as if it is council you should take if it was all a story of what the men were thinking was WRONG? Did Job ever get a answer to his question to GOD? No. I wonder how Job would have felt if he knew as we do today, that the entire event in his life, his loss of family and property was over a bet with Satan? The bet being, "If you remove your protection, Job will curse you". Game on, Hedge was removed and Job was in the middle of a conflict of God and Evil. He died never knowing he was the object of a challenge.

  • TD
    TD

    The only scriptures were the OLD TESTAMENT..

    To echo what Half banana said above:

    Why not The Book of Jubilees? Or The Assumption of Moses, which is a likely source for Jude 1:9?

    How about The Book of Enoch or the Book of Jasher or The Epistle to the Laodiceans or The Life of Adam and Eve, or The Martyrdom of Isaiah or Paul's original letter to the Corinthians. (Referenced in 1 Corinthians)

    The point is that we have no way of knowing what writings the early Christians considered authoritative. All the writings I mentioned above are either quoted or referenced in what we call the New Testament today.

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