by schnell 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I started reading Deceptions and Myths of the Bible by Lloyd Graham tonight, and Graham mentions that the book of Daniel, like the story of Joseph, is ripped off from a Syrian poem about another hero named Daniel (or Dan-El).
A cursory Google search doesn't pull up anything. Is this accurate? Has this ancient poem survived? Where can I find more information on it?
The name is similiar and I think is goes back to the writings of a Berrous or however it's spelled. This guy also writes a flood story similar to Noah and Gilgamesh. The Bible stories are mostly rip off of older ones The epic of Keret is a story found in the city of Ugarit that may have been the works used for the Bible story of Jericho. This is just one example. The book of Daniel has more writings in it if you look at the Greek Septuagint.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danel
Seems to be what you are writing about. Danel/Dnil is a character in 14th century BC, Ugartic text. Daniel is more than a 1000 years later. From wiki
"The text in Corpus Tablettes Alphabétiques [CTA] 17–19 is often referred to as the Epic of Aqhat. Danel was depicted as "judging the cause of the widow, adjudicating the case of the fatherless" in the city gate.[3] He passed through trials: his son Aqhat was destroyed but apparently in the missing conclusion was revived or replaced by Danel's patron god, Rp'u, who sits and judges with Hadad and Astarte and was likely considered to be the equivalent of El.
The text was published and translated in 1936 by Charles Virolleaud[4] and has been extensively analysed since then.[5]"
That's just the intro.
Interesting information, however, I know from experience that if you present the similarities between two such stories believers in the Bible will do one of two things.
1. If the story the Bible copies from was written down before the one in the Bible is supposed to have taken place, then they will say that any similarities are a coincidence.
2. If the story was written after the time the Bible story supposedly happened, (but still a solid thousand years before the Bible's version was written), then the second story is nothing more than a distortion of the Bible's "accurate" account.
The possiblilty that the Bible is also a distortion of actual events that were out of the ordinary but didn't defy every law of physics and biology, isn't a possibility that ever seems to cross their minds.
Just had a quick look and there is a chapter in Stories from Ancient Canaan by Michael D. Coogan & Mark Smith called Aqhat where he gives a brief overview and then there is a translation of the Ugaritic text from the tablets. Danel is the one of the main characters. I would copy and paste as I have an epub copy but its fairly long. I wouldn't say its been ripped off, the stories are completely different but I expect the name was re-purposed. Scholars believe the writing of bible book of Daniel is 2nd century so the entire character of Daniel is probably an invention. I am no expert on these things though; my understanding is fairly limited.
Jews understand the Book of Daniel as a retelling of the legends about one of our greatest national heroes (much like Paul Bunyan of American folklore with a little Uncle Sam thrown in for good measure).
From our history we understand that there was probably an actual Jew who, prior to the Babylonian exile, lived among the Gentiles and set such an example of Jewish religious life that he developed into a legendary hero. Because he lived among the Gentiles he is always spoken of in Scripture as somewhat separate from the Jewish nation. You will note him being mentioned as a well-established figure of virtue in Ezekiel 14:14 alongside Noah and Job.
While there is a possibility that the name is not original and purposefully made to sound like the name of another heroic figure from neighboring cultures, the Biblical Daniel of the book bearing his name is neither the Gentile hero or the actual "Daniel" mentioned in Ezekiel (or even the real person all this is based on).
After the Babylonian exile and well after the Second Temple was rebuilt, the Greek-Syrain oppression began. There was much political intrigue involving other powers as well as struggles within Israel until the invasion of Antiochus IV (Ephiphanes) that led to the repression of Judaism.
It was during this period that the Book of Daniel was composed. The Jewish hero figure was transported into the circumstances of the Babylonian exile as a religio-political treatise work of propaganda countering the anti-Jewish measures occurring in the Jewish world under Antiochus.
Daniel in this book is a youth that keeps to Jewish custom despite pressure from the Babylonians that have captured him to work in King Nebuchadnezzar's court. His faithfulness to Jewish life is rewarded by God in the form of making Daniel a prophet to the Babylonians. His messages are not favorable to the Gentiles however, forecasting their eventual downfall before God's anointed. However the actual "prophecies" therein are really apocalyptic commentary about the repression of Antiochus. The author uses a series of visions as a means of telling Jewish readers that the invading Gentiles will be conquered, that God will raise a new king in Israel, and that the new kingdom will crush the oppressors. This of course happened in the uprising orchestrated by Judah Maccabee and the eventual liberty of the Jews under the Hasmonean dynasty. This allowed the Book of Daniel to be preserved.
Danel's name is not in the Title: The Aghat Epic, but he figures in the story.
Look for links or sources related to the city of Ugarit. The language was Canaanite but the writing was in
cuneiform.
As for Daniel. The biggest key to the story's date of composition is the reference to Darius the Mede.
Darius is not unknown to history. That's how Thucydides and Herodotus referred to the Persian invaders and the Greek victory over them at Marathon. They called them Medes and their king was Darius.
Unfortunately, the year was 490 BC.
But Daniel's author got something out of his Seleucid history classes in the 2nd century BC.
Reviewing some of the discussion, I noticed that some of what I said was already covered. But there is still some issue about why Danel and Daniel. As far as I can tell, it boils down to looking for references to Daniel in the OT other than the text of Daniel itself. The only one is Ezekiel and it's questionable. If Daniel is a contemporary of Ezekiel, he could have been talking of Danel instead when he spoke of the wise men of old such as Noah and Job. Ok. Now try to find another reference in the OT - including in such works as the ("deutero-canonical") Wisdom of Ben Sirach in the 2nd century where the prophets are enumerated.
I think Daniel was written closer to the first century and the writer like it was stated didn't do to well on his history.
