Miracles and responses—both are not explicable

by venus 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • venus
    venus

    A miracle is an event not explicable by natural or scientific laws. Bible reports many such miracles. Interestingly, responses to these reported miracles could be even labeled as a greater miracle which cannot be explained by any known law, logic or experience. For example,

    1) People who supposedly witnessed miraculous parting of Red Sea and other miracles are soon seen turning inimical to the performer of those miracles and turned into a calf-worship—calling that single calf as ’their gods who brought you up out of Egypt.’ (Exodus 32:4) This is like hostages who were delivered by Government Forces turning ungrateful to their saviors and singing praises to some symbol left by their captors! Such a response is unlikely to happen.

    2) Generation that supposedly experienced beneficial miracles performed by Jesus are seen calling for the murder of him shouting ‘We want the robber Barabas to be released and Jesus to be murdered.’ (Mathew 27:17-21) This response too is unlikely to happen. Thus not only action (miracles) but also reactions (hatred of the miracle-worker) are against all known laws, logic and experience.

    Just because one knows that words form a sentence, he cannot simply put any two words [e.g. healthy disease] together.

    Just because one knows that events form action-and-reaction chain, he cannot simply label any two events as action (miracle-performance by an altruist) and reaction (the generation that experienced those miracles responded with murder of the miracle-worker). It is like saying: “When supply increases [action] price will increase [reaction].” No, even if it is gold, if its supply increases exceedingly and becomes like sands of the desert, its price will come down, and will be treated like sands of the desert.

  • Confusedalot
    Confusedalot

    Could the reason be that these people lived at a time when almost everything was a miracle because of scientific ignorance and lack of knowledge?

    When the wind blows, it rains, the sun or moon rises and eclipses or lightning strikes and you are not sure what it is, and you think its some act of God, someone turning water into wine seems less special.

    Our Lord was killed due to his perceived attack or blasphemy against the religious "truth" of the time...in spite of the miracles he performed to try to wake them up.

  • Drearyweather
    Drearyweather

    No, this does not defy logic. What happened can be called different variations of human behavior.

    I would see the accounts differently:

    1. The response to the parting of the Red sea was not the making of the Golden calf. The song sung by Miriam and the other women and all the Israelites were a response to the Red sea. Exodus 15:1 and 20 says that Moses, the Israelites, Miriam and all the women participated in the song. This victory song was the response to the miracle. And all Israelites participated in singing it.

    The event of the golden calf took place later due to the fact that Moses was away for 40 days. And it’s was not the entire Israel’s reaction, but as the account says, 3000 men were killed for this, or, 0.5% of the total Israelite men.

    No matter how good you do, you will always have some people who won’t be grateful for you have done, or will forget the favor you do to them. That’s what we call human, thankful today, thankless tomorrow.

    2. Many people benefited from the miracles of Jesus, however, long before his death, many of these who benefited from him later left him because of the following reasons:

    a. They were interested only in physical miracles and not his teachings (John 6:26)

    b. Jesus refused to be their leader (John 6:14, 15)

    c. They did not understand Jesus teachings (John 6:66)

    These were the ones who wanted Jesus dead. It was not that they suddenly turned against their leader. They had already left following him long before his death.

  • inbetween09
    inbetween09

    about the golden calf:

    the context speaks about all the people (ex 32:3) and even Gods response initially was to wipe them all out, only because Moses intervened, it did not happen.

  • venus
    venus

    Confusedalot,

    You say: “Our Lord was killed due to his perceived attack or blasphemy against the religious "truth" of the time...in spite of the miracles he performed to try to wake them up.”

    Miracles, if they were really performed—such as resurrection, calming the storm which suggest the power over life and natural forces would overshadow ‘all religious the truth” of the time, and observers would automatically leave behind such shadow-like truth and embrace the real truth that is now at hand—just like one would leave behind toy car when he is given a BMW 640i Gran Coupe.

  • venus
    venus

    Drearyweather,

    You said: "No matter how good you do, you will always have some people who won’t be grateful for you have done, or will forget the favor you do to them. That’s what we call human, thankful today, thankless tomorrow."

    If there is no ruler in the White House for 40 days, would the American people forget their founding fathers and all the bloodshed in the freedom struggle? Is it for no reason that finally God decreed only Joshua and Caleb would enter the promised land?

    You provide three reasons why people rejecting Jesus. But they do not explain why should anyone prefer a bandit to an altruistic miracle worker.

  • Drearyweather
    Drearyweather
    If there is no ruler in the White House for 40 days, would the American people forget their founding fathers and all the bloodshed in the freedom struggle?

    We cannot compare the behavior patterns of the ancient Israelites and the 21st Century Americans. We are discussing about Jews who spent generations in hardship and slavery and then are stranded in a wilderness.

    You provide three reasons why people rejecting Jesus. But they do not explain why should anyone prefer a bandit to an altruistic miracle worker.

    The reason is simple: Indoctrination.

    Matt 27:20: But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.

    why should anyone prefer a bandit to an altruistic miracle worker.

    What do you think, why did 27,000 foreign people leave their families, friends, governments to join the ISIS? Persuasion? Indoctrination? Delusion?

  • venus
    venus

    Drearyweather,

    People who were really witnesses of miracles such as resurrection cannot be influenced against the performer of those miracles by things such as indoctrination, money, or threat ...

    If people were indoctrinated against Jesus, then it would mean such great miracles have never taken place.

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