Meaning of Elder from the horses mouth as contrasted with Clergy

by Longlivetherenegades 8 Replies latest jw friends

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  Longlivetherenegades

  Meaning of as captured in one of their publications....

  Elder: A spiritually mature male Witness appointed to teach and to provide pastoral care for the well-being of congregation members. An elder must meet the Scriptural qualifications as outlined at 1 Timothy 3:1-7; Titus 1:5-9; James 3:17, 18; and 1 Peter 5:2.

  Elders are not paid ministers and are not employees of their respective congregation or any corporation associated with Jehovah’s Witnesses. Most elders work secularly to support themselves and their families. The Witnesses do not have a clergy class or clergy-laity distinction. The term is not used as a title or honorific.

  Clergy: a group ordained to perform pastoral or sacerdotal functions in a Christian church.

  Question: Who is an elder? Who is a clergy?

  Answer: they are those appointed or ordained to provide or perform pastoral care or functions in a Christian church or on congregation members.

  Then the below....

  "The term(elder) is not used as a title or honorific"

  Bro Tom has been appointed as an elder in dubtown congregation. The designation of bro Tom in dubtown congregation is that of ... ...... an elder.

  Meaning of designation.... to indicate and set apart for a specific purpose, office, or duty.

  Do they honor their elders? Are their repeated admonition to honor their elders?

  They don't have to call it honorific title but we know members are meant to honor them based on the designation and position that comes along with duty or post they occupy.

  Below is an example that shows that they do....
  

  • We honor Christian elders when we show respect for their position and follow their direction. We also honor them by commending them for their hard work. However, it would be wrong to give humans the type of honor that belongs only to Jehovah and Jesus
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  ExBethelitenowPIMA

  I have been an elder for a long time and still am. Although I’m agnostic which means I won’t commit to either intelligent design or chance.

  what I can tell you is that there is a rapidly declining number of brothers who want to reach out as it’s called.

  standards are lowering age is lowering but still there is a shortage of brothers who accept being an appointed man.

  our elders meetings going over brothers who we think could reach out are showing huge decline in expectations.

  years ago a brother never would have been considered for various reasons but now he is being asked but usually they say no thanks. Life is hard enough why take on all that o top of what I’m already dealing with.

  The CO is asking brothers to just take it on, he says Jehovah will help you.

  result is in many congregations there are some brothers becoming elders who would not have years ago.

  but there is such a shortage now sometimes sister are doing microphones

  there is not enough brothers to do all the jobs and they are not getting done well
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  WingCommander

  Sounds like the sighing and moaning and gnashing of teeth is real.

  WatchTower is a shell of itself.

  El-duhhhhhz.......indeed.
  
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  TonusOH

  When I was in, turning down an opportunity to become an MS or elder would have been a red flag, unless the man in question had a really good reason to turn it down. But back then there wasn't a shortage of people available, so the ones who were invited were people who clearly wanted to serve. I can't imagine being in a congregation where the atmosphere was that apathetic!
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  Konagirl

  “We were not called, nor anointed to receive honor and amass wealth but to spend and be spent, and to preach the good news.” W 20 October pg 21

  Okay, who receives honor as an anointed one but the GB, who, acting as benefactors/high officials/tyrants (depending on the translation), of the organization, have also amassed great wealth. (Mark 10:41-45 CSB; Luke 22:24-27 CSB; Matt 20:24-28 NIV)

  But a true faithful anointed one following in the footsteps of Christ (not possible in the Wt), would most definitely not expect any honor to be given them. That would be bestowed on them at Jesus’ return. (Matt 25:21)

  And no honor is attributed to them in the magazines.

  Then why do elders, who “represent” this anointed priesthood, need to be honored?
• 

  Longlivetherenegades

  Brother Tom(standing on the platform) : All elders are to wait behind after the meetings of today.

  Me: You bet 100% brother Jerry an ordinary publisher will not wait behind. The question becomes how come those who wait behind like brother Jackson know he is expected to wait behind.

  Answer: Simple, brother Jackson knows the designation or title as it were is attached to his name that will be his reason for waiting behind.
  
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  Anony Mous

  Pretty much every court across the world has disagreed with that notion of an elder not being part of the organization. It's the organization that appoints them. They may not be paid (volunteers) but that doesn't mean they aren't considered "employees" for a variety of legal reasons.

  In the end, the "elders" are the officers of the congregation both by legal standards (their names are on papers) and from a secular viewpoint (they are the ones people go to for advice and leadership in the congregation).

  From the quote above, they want to have it both ways, they want to claim they are nothing special and aren't at all associated with the congregation and don't fulfill the clergy role then simultaneously claim they are appointed to provide pastoral care (aka clerical duties) and perform duties associated with a congregation.
• 

  Journeyman

  ExBethelite: what I can tell you is that there is a rapidly declining number of brothers who want to reach out as it’s called.

  Yes, though I'm not an elder, I've seen this too. There are several congregations I know of where there are a number of brothers who are old enough and experienced enough but they are not being 'promoted'. With some it is due to health, but with others they have probably refused to take on more, while a few I know have 'issues' that prevent them from being considered. Some of them might be playing their health or other issues up to prevent being asked to do more, and I wouldn't blame them.

  I was never interested in being an elder. Back when I was more naive about what went on in the org, it was because I didn't think I had what it takes to handle judicial cases and didn't want to have that kind of (spiritual) "life or death" pressure on me. And now I know even more about what goes on, I certainly wouldn't want to be an elder, knowing the burden the org puts on you, and also the internal politics and strife within bodies of elders.

  Indeed, if I were in the position to be first offered MS now, I would probably decline that too. Back when I was made MS it seemed a more worthwhile role. We had a 'real' theocratic school and a service meeting with parts that were worth preparing and getting on the platform for. Ministry was still focused on developing some sort of art of teaching and seemed more substantial. I actually used to enjoy giving the old "number 4" talks, bible highlights and Q&A service meeting items from the OKM, taking midweek field service when few elders were available, supporting them with groups at weekends and going with them on a few shepherding calls.

  Now the role of a MS on the platform is often just to top and tail a video. Even a lot of the elders' items are the same, such as playing the silhouette ministry videos or introducing the GB updates. And ministry is often a much smaller group who split up straight after the prayer, with some going to do a few doors by themselves and others going to a cafe to write letters (allegedly) or staying online.

  but there is such a shortage now sometimes sister are doing microphones

  I know of several congregations that since the return from the pandemic, have started using sisters on the audio-visual desk during the meeting, due to not having enough brothers to do all the talks as well as handle the platform, mics and sound. I can't ever remember seeing that before.

  there is not enough brothers to do all the jobs and they are not getting done well

  I've also noticed this too. Several in the congregation are noticing that elders are not as visible on shepherding visits or out on service with the rest of the congregation as they used to be before the pandemic, and will comment (privately) about it. A number of elders themselves that I've spoken to sound tired and overwhelmed and are aware things are not as smooth as they were, and that's just what they're prepared to say in my company. I can imagine their meetings with each other and the CO are probably even more depressing!
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  Journeyman

  Anony Mous: Pretty much every court across the world has disagreed with that notion of an elder not being part of the organization. It's the organization that appoints them.

  Yes, the org can't get away with this slippery double-standard for much longer. There are too many examples in their own direction (letters to BoEs, Shepherd The Flock book, theocratic schools, etc) that show that of course the elders are equivalent to the clergy in other churches.

  They may not receive a salary (stipend), wear flashy robes or have fancy titles, but for all practical purposes they fulfil the role of a clergy class. Their relative 'authority' within the organisation compared to the rank and file makes the difference, and is undeniable.