Illogicality of preaching

by venus 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • venus
    venus

    Not all Scripture is God-breathed. There are verses that also dishonor God. For example, subject of preaching seems to be too illogical even though it is the very basis of many sects [especially of JW organization which defines itself as the preaching organization]. To mention a few reasons why preaching commission is illogical:

    1) Preaching commission is followed by all sorts of unreasonable instructions (such as 10:23, 34, 37 …etc. compare Ezekiel 3:18) which would not originate from God or Jesus. It is unlikely that they would say ‘fear should be your motive behind your service to God’ (Mathew 10:28, 33) because what is done out of fear is mechanical and is also as good as nothing being done.

    2) In contrast to Mathew 6:2, 3, 5, 16 where he said what is done for reward is useless, it is unlikely that Jesus would say: “Every one therefore who shall confess me before men, him will I also confess before my Father who is in heaven.” (Mathew 10:32) This statement (often used to encourage the preachers to do more) dishonors Jesus and God because it essentially means: ‘If you do this we will do that for you’ which is a worldly attitude against which Jesus himself cautions us in great detail (John chapter 15, 17 … etc) and contradicts other fundamental truths Jesus emphasized earlier such as Mathew 5:44-48.

    3) Result-wise too preaching is unnecessary as it accomplishes nothing because everyone already knows what is right and wrong. For example, people are quick to notice the wrong when it is committed by others [which proves they know ‘what is wrong?’] and are quick to seek glory for the good when it is committed by themselves [which proves they know ‘what is right?’]. We all know what actions of others make us happy and unhappy which means we know what actions to be adopted and what actions to be avoided in relation to others. We have also an ocean of experiences (of our own and of others) to decide what is beneficial and harmful.

    4) We are already endowed with the capacity to live as though in heaven. When we are fully focused on the now we live as though in heaven [for example, three hours in an examination hall are felt by us like three seconds; in contrast three hours waiting in the Airport when we have something urgent to do on arrival are felt by us like three days]. When we base our happiness on perfect behavior of others we live as though in hell because they cannot often rise to the level of our expectation as actions of others depend on many factors and forces often beyond their control. Even when we are wronged, we have the freedom to move ahead leaving the past where it belongs to and to fully focus on the now which again makes us live as though in heaven. Jesus reiterated this saying: “the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21)


    [Unfortunately, here too preachers tried to distort the meaning replacing the phrase “within you” with the phrase “in your midst.” But they didn’t know Jesus did mean Kingdom of God is “within” or “inside” us because he used the same Greek word in other unambiguous verses (such as Luke 11:39) where he says: “You Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness.” If one wants he can choose to make his life heaven or hell. It’s all within us because our mind is too wonderful that it can choose to be self-contented (like some of the poor people do) or greedy (like some of the rich people do) in any circumstances.]

    Thus, the major subject of preaching too falls into the category of God-dishonoring subjects such as those where God is shown as saying ‘I don’t like humans to become like Me’ (Genesis 3:22); ‘I would not permit humans to undertake engineering wonders’ (Genesis 11:4-7); ‘I authorize plundering and killing’ (Numbers 31); ‘Let sinners do the greatest sin of murdering an innocent, the value of which I would use to take away the sins of the world’ (John 1:29); ‘I have predetermined everything that happens’ (Isaiah 40:13; Ephesians 1:3-12; Romans 8:28) ….etc. all of which are obviously the product of human thinking.

  • Drearyweather
    Drearyweather
    Not all Scripture is God-breathed.

    Since you say "Not All", do you have a list or do you know which scriptures are God breathed?

    because what is done out of fear is mechanical and is also as good as nothing being done.
    Do you believe in the concept of healthy fear? i.e. fear of being killed if you drink and drive, fear of losing your child to bad influences if not trained properly? Do you believe that the word 'fear' is always wrong?
    ‘If you do this we will do that for you’ which is a worldly attitude

    Is asking someone to do something for something in return wrong? For e.g. to stay as a resident, you need to have all valid documents. Is the government wrong in demanding this? Is a Father wrong in telling his son, "If you need to stay in this house, you need to stop using drugs"

    Result-wise too preaching is unnecessary as it accomplishes nothing because everyone already knows what is right and wrong. For example, people are quick to notice the wrong when it is committed by others

    Is knowing what is right and what is wrong enough? or doing what is right and not doing what is wrong the main thing?

    all of which are obviously the product of human thinking

    Scriptures are from God, its incorrect interpretation is a product of human thinking.



  • venus
    venus

    Drearyweather

    1) God-breathed scriptures are those which are prima facie true—like Mathew 5:44-48. They need no interpretation like saying ‘the whole is greater than its part”

    2) Fear evoked in verses such as Mathew 10:28, 33; Ezekiel 3:18 is morbid fear, not healthy fear as you feel.

    3) Governments asking for valid documents is not a valid comparison with Mathew 10:32, 33.

    4) Knowing what is right and what is wrong is more than enough to suggest that preaching is not necessary. If one knows what to do, then it is up to him—he may or may not do it. Others have nothing to do with his decision. This is why even God chooses not to respond to people who try to dishonor Him—nothing will be accomplished. He gives freedom even to deny Him

    5) Many of the verses are not inspired. If you step on to the 1st step of a staircase having 10 steps, you won’t say: “No one has climbed the whole 10 steps of this staircase except me.” Now read John 3:13 where Jesus is reportedly saying: “No one has ascended into heaven except him.” How can he say this in the beginning of his ministry—he ascended into heaven in the end of his ministry. Try this verse as a sample, and you will find many verses falling into this category.

  • ttdtt
    ttdtt

    God is a bad Marketing Agent, and cant get his message out effectively.

  • venus
    venus

    ttdtt,

    2000 years of heralding mixed and confused message by his so-called messengers show that it is not God's way of conveying some message He wants to convey. (1 Cor 14:8, 33). People self-style themselves as messengers and use God's name to get easy acceptance.

  • Drearyweather
    Drearyweather
    God-breathed scriptures are those which are prima facie true—like Mathew 5:44-48. They need no interpretation like saying ‘the whole is greater than its part”

    But that doesn’t work that way. If we don’t understand something, we dig deeper, we don’t discard it as unreasonable. This is true in all walks of life.

    Fear evoked in verses such as Mathew 10:28, 33; Ezekiel 3:18 is morbid fear, not healthy fear as you feel.

    Ez 3:18: The scriptures are warnings. The impact is though morbid. Warning someone that he will be charred to death if he touches the electricity wire is not invoking morbid fear. I’m still not sure how Mathew 10:28,33 invokes morbid fear.

    Governments asking for valid documents is not a valid comparison with Mathew 10:32, 33.

    The whole crux of Christianity is following Jesus. The whole crux of being a citizen is to follow the rules of the government. The whole crux of being a human being is to not harm others and be human. If you decide to believe the Bible then you follow Jesus. Bible is not an academic book, it’s a religious book that dictates a law that is a constitution to its believers. Dissecting a constitution leads nowhere. You either follow it or you don't. And you are clearly made aware of its consequences.

    If one knows what to do, then it is up to him—he may or may not do it. Others have nothing to do with his decision.

    A sane human knows that killing others is wrong. But if he still does it, someone needs to stop him. That is why we have the whole concept of rehab centres. And that’s why we have the police force to stop people in doing what is wrong.

    “No one has ascended into heaven except him.”How can he say this in the beginning of his ministry—he ascended into heaven in the end of his ministry.

    Remember that the Bible says the Jesus was an angel in heaven in his pre-form. Like all other angels, Jesus too came on earth to give messages. As a human now, only Jesus was the one who had in his earlier days, ascended and descended to heaven. No other human had had an angelic form earlier and had ascended to heaven and had a glimpse of God or communicated with God. Neither did any other angel came down to earth and lived as a human from its birth like Jesus. Only Jesus fits that category. Only he was the human being who was also an angel earlier and had the work of ascending and descending into heaven.

    Try this verse as a sample, and you will find many verses falling into this category.

    This whole idea is known as isolating verses without understanding its context.

    Chopping someone’s hand is wrong and a crime. But a doctor amputating a gangrene infected hand is not wrong. He is not contradicting reasonable human laws.

    The law of gravity states that every object in air falls down to the earth. However, a child’s helium balloon going up in the air is not contradicting the idea of gravity. More understating of science is behind it.

    Two ideas that seems contradictory prima facie need not be contradictory. Hence, there is a need to understand the context of the scripture.

  • venus
    venus
    Drearyweather

    Your explanation about John 3:13 is a joke. Truth is that Jesus never said it, and it is impossible to say that. It is like Obama saying in 2007 "No one from the Black community has become US President except me."

    If you were listening to Obama making such a statement in 2007, you would definitely say like me: "it is a joke." Now put yourself in front of Jesus in 1st century when he was supposedly making that statement; you will say the same: "It is a joke." But it is obvious that he did not say.

    Since you are knowingly misleading yourself, I am not commenting on your other points.

  • Drearyweather
    Drearyweather
    It is like Obama saying in 2007

    A Christian will not compare Jesus with Obama. There is more than a billion people who believe the Jesus is God and hence believe that he can work wonders. Obama didnt raise the dead, stop a storm or walked on water. If Jesus was a mere imperfect human, then you are right. But if he was a son of God, then things change. So its up to you to believe.

    But it is obvious that he did not say.

    I don't know how you came to this conclusion.

  • venus
    venus

    Drearyweather

    You said: "I don't know how you came to this conclusion."

    You take yourself back to Jesus' time and be among his immediate listeners, listen to him as saying: "No one has ascended into heaven except me"

    You would say "no, Jesus, you are here right now, you would ascend into heaven only after three and half years later."

    Did you get the problem with the verse John 3:13?

  • venus
    venus

    Dearyweather,

    Interestingly, even The Watchtower admits that this verse (John 3:13) is not to be taken seriously because "When Jesus spoke to Nicodemus, a Pharisee and a teacher in Israel, Jesus had not yet gone back to heaven"

    w06 6/15 p. 30(https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2006447)

    If "Jesus had not yet gone back to heaven" while speaking to Nicodemus, it means he did not utter those verse. Later writers were assuming what were all the things Jesus would have spoken and done and were writing accordingly.

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