MEMORIAL TALK TRAINING VIDEO 2025 -PART 1

by raymond frantz 5 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • raymond frantz
    raymond frantz

    https://youtu.be/4UpZVoNZG10?si=1BdVV6qZCUj2fO6S

    Oh, the joys of being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, where you get to learn that heaven is a VIP lounge for exactly 144,000 people—and sorry, everyone else, you're stuck in the “earth forever” section. Yep, you get to mow grass in paradise while the chosen few float around in immortal glory. Sounds fair, right? Because clearly, God is running a limited-entry club in heaven, complete with a divine bouncer counting heads at the door.Let’s break this down. So, the idea is that *only* 144,000 people get to go to heaven, because Revelation mentions that number. And that’s it, apparently. Context? Who needs it. Never mind the rest of Scripture, just grab that number and build a whole theology on it. But here’s the kicker—**1 Corinthians 15:22-23** throws a big wrench into this. Paul writes: *“For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.”* Wait, what? ALL who belong to Christ? Not “some,” not “just the elite 144,000,” but ALL. That’s weird, it’s almost like Paul didn’t get the memo about this exclusive heaven policy.

    But it gets better. Paul goes on in **1 Corinthians 15:50-54** to explain that *flesh and blood can’t inherit the kingdom of God* and that *all* will be changed into immortal, spiritual beings. Not “some,” not “just the early birds who filled up the 144,000 quota,” but ALL faithful believers. So if *all* are changed into immortal, spiritual beings who can’t die, get sick, or stub their toe, where exactly are these people supposed to live? Oh, that’s right—heaven. Because that’s what a spiritual, immortal body is for.

    Now, let’s talk about this *fabulous* idea of a “secondary class” who, I guess, should feel lucky just to be invited to the eternal party… but wait, they can’t come inside. They get to stand outside forever, while the 144,000 enjoy the real blessings. Because apparently, God loves playing favorites. Let’s just ignore **Romans 8:17**, which says, *“Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ.”* Co-heirs, meaning equal inheritance. Funny, it doesn’t say “heirs in two different tiers,” or “heirs, but some of you get leftovers.”

    Heaven isn’t just a nice location upgrade. It’s a different existence. In heaven, you’re immortal, untouchable by time, hunger, or the weather. You don’t have to eat, sleep, or wear clothes unless you want to. You don’t break a sweat hauling around a physical body because—guess what—you don’t have one. Now let’s compare that to the so-called “paradise on earth,” where you’re still in a physical, fragile body that needs maintenance. Yeah, you get to prune trees, avoid bee stings, and hope you don’t trip over a rock. Clearly, such a *luxury*.

    And here’s the real plot twist. The “great crowd” who allegedly stay on earth forever? Well, **Revelation 7:9** says they’re *standing before the throne of God*, which is—shocker—*in heaven*. Oops. So much for that whole “eternal earth” theory.

    Now buckle up, because **Revelation 20:6** is about to make this even more awkward: *“Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.”* Wait, did that say “blessed and holy”? Reigning with Christ? Priests of God? Yeah, and that’s the *first* resurrection—*the better resurrection*. And where is Christ reigning from? Heaven, not someone’s backyard in paradise. So these people aren’t just alive—they’re ruling. They’re *with God*, not watching from Earth’s nosebleed section.

    Let’s not forget, the Bible never says there’s a resurrection to earth after Christ returns where people just chill forever in Eden 2.0. That idea had to be *massaged* into the text by people desperate to make their doctrines fit. And of course, only the special 144,000 get the first-class ticket to heaven, while the “great crowd” is supposed to smile and accept a second-rate reward. Because who doesn’t love being a second-class citizen for eternity?

    In conclusion, the whole 144,000-in-heaven and everyone-else-on-earth teaching? It’s not just wrong—it’s absurd. It’s a man-made fantasy that shrinks God’s promise and turns it into a divine caste system. The truth is simple: *all* who belong to Christ get the *better resurrection*, the one where you reign with Him in heaven—not just a chosen few with heavenly frequent flyer miles. Heaven isn’t reserved for a club of 144,000. It’s for *all* true believers. Don’t settle for less when God offers the best

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    You make an earthly life sound like a cheap second class salvation. Putting my Dub hat back on now, I never wanted to go to Heaven. I could not imagine it. Everything I ever wanted, aspired to , enjoyed in life is here .

    No, everlasting life on Earth and even greeting my dead loved ones back again was a far more attractive deal .

  • BoogerMan
    BoogerMan

    Luke 19:10 - "For the Son of man came to seek and to save what was lost.”"

    What exactly did Adam lose for his descendants - life on earth as humans, or as spirit creatures in heaven?

    (Genesis 1:28) "Further, God blessed them and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth heaven and subdue it..."

    No one - not even an angel from heaven - (Gal. 1:8) can convince me that a ransom ever buys back more than what was lost!


  • HereIam60
    HereIam60

    The idea of heaven or hell, with earth as a testing ground always puzzled me, so the Witness view, man was made to live on the earth made sense, scripturally and reasonably. The idea of places in heaven was promised by Jesus to his apostles. So it came to be, when asked "Are you going to Heaven?".. (I seemed to encounter a lot of young evangelicals)...my reply would be " I don't think anyone is Going to Heaven, they have to be Taken there by God, so if he chooses to do that then yes, but it's not for me to decide, nor in my power. Besides where are we living now? Where did God put Adam and Eve to live?...

  • Duran
    Duran

    Your view of heaven is flawed. Earth is earth (the planet humans live on), but heaven is not a limited location. Living on earth in the future under God's kingdom can still be said to be in heaven.

    [ 10 Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth.]

    [44 “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever,]

    [ 34 You looked on until a stone was cut out, not by hands, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and of clay and crushed them. 35 At that time the iron, the clay, the copper, the silver, and the gold were, all together, crushed and became like the chaff from the summer threshing floor, and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a large mountain, and it filled the whole earth.]

    [11 But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.]

    [ 2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them.]

    [3 And there will no longer be any curse. But the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his slaves will offer him sacred service;]

    Belinda Carlisle - Heaven Is A Place On Earth (Official Music Video)

  • GLTirebiter
    GLTirebiter

    To be among the 144,00 anointed ones, you must belong to one of the twelve tribes of Israel (Rev 7:4-8), and be a male virgin (Rev 14:3-4). And the "huge number, impossible for anyone to count, of people from every nation, race, tribe and language, they were standing in front of the throne and the Lamb..." (Rev 7:9) not staying behind without a "heavenly hope".

    That is not compatible with the two castes of salvation preached by WTBTS, inc.

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