New experience for me..advice, anyone?

zanex

I have been out of touch with pretty much all of the old jw's that I used to hang around with while in new mexico. I have been informed that one of those jw's that oddly enough happens to be related to my roommate that I am currently living with is coming to town and I have also been told that he is trying to leave the org and doesnt want to be any part of it anymore but he still has a lot of family in the religion...another twist anyone? Oh yeah he also is "coming out" he is gay. I have no problem with homosexual people at all I have plenty of gay friends. I actually kinda feel for the guy cuz he is so in for a whale of a time leaving. He has told friends of mine here in town that I know that he wants my help and my advice/support blah blah blah...I am oddly enough suffering a problem with meeting him...I havent seen this guy in 10 some odd years and even back then we werent THAT close. I was on the outs long before he ever was. He was one of the ones that was ignoring me back then...not that he was important enough to pay any attention to but he was just another one of the rank and file. He used to hang with my sister and her friends back in the day. I on one side want to be able to help just because I remember the pains of my own leaving...I dont think that anyone should have to go through that...if anyone is going to be "shunned" then I want to be there to support them.

Then there is the other side of me that is suspicious of ALL things jehovahs witness. He is still technically baptized and has not made any type of open gesture of leaving the church. He still goes to meetings and blah blah blah...I get nervous that should I meet with him and open to him and share what I have found with him he will leave that meeting and randomly suffer a morality crisis and feel the need to purge himself of all that he has heard from one who is "fallen" to an elder or something at which point I am promptly labelled an apostate and word is sent to my parents who will undoubtedly cut what meager ties they have with me now as it is. I pose this situation to anyone here interested...I have been told that this guy is coming into town this thursday...any advice? Suggestions? Good ways to dispose of body without being caught? Peace... Freedom...

-Z-

Freedomrules

I guess I have a few questions: First, were you baptized? Are you DF'd or DA's or inactive? What is the nature of your relationship with your parents? You said you have meager ties? If you are DF'd or DA'd or inactive, does anyone know why? Personally, I think the apostate label is too easy to toss on someone. Honestly disagreeing with a person or organization shouldn't make you an apostate. Ironic that the same organization that will run to the Supreme Court to cry First Amendment violations of Freedom of Religion and cite their right to Freedom of Speech, will deny anyone else that same right, and just label anyone that disagrees an apostate. I used to teach logic when I was an undergrad and this is a classic case of a fallacy in argument, namely attacking the individual rather than the argument.

As for this person, my inclination would be to let him do the bulk of the talking, and maybe point him to some resources if you aren't comfortable sharing your personal views. The poor guy has got a lot going on right now.

Maverick

Tough spot to get put in Zanex. If he has access to computers you could mention in passing this site and others like it. Also reading about the org. via Ray Franz, even adding a disclaimer stating you have heard of these things but have no first hand knowledge. Freedomrules is right, let him do all the talking. If he is still close to Dud-land his brain will still be soft and he will take suggestions without any resistance. Maverick

Granny Linda

I was taught that recovery is about sharing our experience, strength and hope. And as already mentioned, allowing the other person to talk. Gawd knows we need to purge a lot of garbage to someone who isn't sitting in judgement of us.

Years ago I remember how at an AA retreat this gal came from out of state in hopes of finding someone she could purge her past with. Sad, but true, often times we cannot do this necessary step in our own communties because people do/will gossip.

So while you may be experiencing some hesitation yourself, perhaps this man has unnamed fears too. Trust is a two-way street. Be that good listener and try not to project into the situation undue negativity, as in the "what if" syndrome.

I, too, was quite cautious when it came time to share those deep dark secrets of my past. But when I found someone I thought could be trusted and began talking, time seemed to literally stand still. I'll be eternally grateful for that woman who listened to me as I purged the old demons. And those words will never pass my lips again...until it's time to share with someone else who is suffering as I suffered.

People come into our lives for reasons that may not always be clear from the on-set. And you don't have to "like" the person, but understand they are reaching out for help. And remain true to your own boundaries...and you'll instintively know.

just my thoughts.

granny

JamesThomas

Will you stand up for truth without concern for possible personal ramifications, or be self protective and quite? No one can tell you what to do, or what is right for you. There are those who will enter burning buildings to help others, and there are those who wont. Follow your heart. JamesT

caligirl

I would agree with the advice to let him do the talking - not much risk in lending a listening ear, and you can also point him to the internet to do some sleuthing for himself. The fact that non-witness family members of his know that he wants to leave is probably a good indication that he is serious about his departure - what serious witness would dare let an "outsider" know that they don't want to be there? Bad for future conversions! I wish you the best in whatever discussions you end up having with him. Just be true to yourself and your instincts.

zanex

wow, lots of good advice and questions from everyone! I knew there was a good reason I am on this site..ok lets go about this in order..

freedomrules:I am df'd now for 8 or so years, my pop is an elder, mom is extremely devout jw. I have a semi-professional, based on logistic relationship with my dad and not so much of anything with my mom. It has taken me years to get this much from them. As to whether anyone knows why I am not sure myself actually. I only vaguely recall what those members of that judicial commitee said that night to me. Their faces are clear but not the words. I honestly dont know what criteria one has to meet in order to be labelled an apostate so only can go by what I know of my father and their understanding of the word. You are very right in what ya said..irony within the jw system does not go to waste it seems. Yah he does have a lot going on right now. Yah letting him do the bulk of the talking sounds good to me. Good feedback! Thanxz!

Mav: yah if he is still close to the jdub infrastructure he will be either full of mush or hard as concrete...either way I have already done my "time in jw departure crisis" so know what to expect I imagine. Yah gonna send him this way too. I already have all of the books that have been used for jw departure..coc, awakenings of a jw..etc...so I am fully armed with the "sword of truth" LOL damn that was funny...

Granny: the feeling behind your post reflects a past that is probably very long and full of emotional experience. I thank you for that...he IS reaching out and I could possibly be the only one in a position to just listen to what he has to say. He isnt a bad guy..I never had any problems with him personally I think that I will be able to just sit and listen unobjectively and nonjudgementally. Thankxz

JamesThomas: Very good question..I have been molded to believe that when a time of persecution loomed close by that I would stand fast in the face of overwhelming odds in belief of a dubious at best religious system. That sentance is probably grammatically wrong but hope the point came across. To be honest I dont know what is going to happen..I guess I will just have to wait and see eh? It is good though for me to get feedback from those on here that may have been in similar situations. "Follow your heart" LOL funny words eh? All those years hearing that I should not listen to my heart and that it was treacherous and deceitful. LOL. Damn I'm glad I can still laugh about it!

Caligirl: True, you have a VERY good point there. I thought about that one for a bit...his non jw family know about his desire to leave to org. I couldnt come up with an answer to my own question of "why would he tell his non jw family all of this if he was NOT genuine?" I dunno...I think at this point the course of prudence with some room for empathic listening would be the best thing for me. I'll do it the way I have done most everything ELSE in my life...WING IT! lol...Thankxz!

scotsman

I might be wrong, but...

If this guy is telling people he's gay then he's ready to leave and is unlikely to be struck with pangs of conscience and if he's leaving the borg 10 years after you then he's probably more afraid of the 'world' too and needs a friendly face.

When I left, I was thankful that I had on old friend who could relate to the departure process. The difference was, she contacted me, not me her.

Valis

zanex...hey man, just go have some dinner and get to know him again. Don't even talk about religion till he decides to bring it up...depending, as the other peeps have said, his readiness to be away from JWland. Maybe it will be good for both of you to regain an old friendship and help each other get on w/life.

Sincerely,

District Overbeer

New experience for me..advice, anyone?

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