To dream or not to dream

by teejay 7 Replies latest jw friends

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  teejay

  Azaria started a thread yesterday asking: of all the people who have ever lived, who would we most like to spend a day with? Several made very touching comments about a parent or grandparent and it got me to thinking about something.

  My (loyal JW) mother has issues of her own – not all of them JW related – but she and I have always gotten along although we've never really been that close. That's partly because she has strong Native American tendencies but also because she lost her father when she was very young and never learned to show affection. It's probably never helped, either, that I am the spitting image (in appearance and demeanor) of my deceased father, a man my mother came to despise long before he left this place. Still, we have good times together, my mother and I – better now than they have ever been.

  Which brings me to my father. Before he passed (and not knowing that he would), he and I did spend several whole days together here and there. I came to see why he and my mother never got along and why they split up when I was little. They were two decent people, poorly matched. Which brings me to the point of this thread.

  I know what a day is like with my parents. With one, I have the privilege fairly often. Though we don't see eye-to-eye on religious matters, my mother is one of the most decent people you're ever likely to meet. I also know what a day is like with my father. I'm probably not as appreciative as I oughta be, but truth be told, neither of my parents are great company. Not to say that they are bad people just... well... you know? Knowing what it's like to spend time with them, I was wondering if I would be better off NOT knowing but having the dream that spending time with them would be the greatest thing in the world.

  IOW, would I be better off having a dream of what it would be like instead of knowing the reality?

  Taking it a step further... what if every person everywhere could get to know for certain that there isn't a god. What if the mystery of his existence (or non-existence) was totally removed? What if the mystery of what happens when we die could be totally removed? What if we could get to know for certain that there wasn't an afterlife of any kind? That this life really was all there is? Would we be better off now? Or is it better that we go through life hoping in something that may not even be real?

  Is it better living with the reality – or the dream?
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  pandora

  I think reality. Dreams are nice, but reality is,,um, real. Why base any important decision on something that is not real?

  If god could be proven or disproven, existance would have real meaning. If disproven, then this is the life you get. Live it to the fullest. Today could be your last day. Love the ones around you like it is. Spend everyday appreciating THIS life, as apposed to waiting on the next life.

  If god is proven, then cool. Maybe there is something else. But I want proof of that too.

  In closing. You knew your parents. You are fortunate. There are many who don't know theirs. So your father wasn't perfect. He was your's. Look in the mirror. Beyond what you see with your eyes. Do you like who you are? If so, he was a part of your making. He can't be that bad. You're pretty cool. Mom had the same part in your making. So, you don't always see eye to eye. It is the diversity of our backgrounds that make us who we are. And all of us here are pretty cool.

  Reality. Definately.

  -P(J)

  edited to correct grammer
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  Shutterbug

  Dreams are fine, but we all are compelled to face up to reality as dreams just make us feel good and really don't accomplish much. Granted, some folks dream of being rich, marrying a beautiful woman,or having something else they may want, but, in order to achieve these dreams, you had better face reality or you will not accomplish the dream/goals.

  Good post Teejay, very thought provoking. Bug
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  teejay

  You knew your parents. You are fortunate. There are many who don't know theirs. So your father wasn't perfect. He was your's. Look in the mirror. Do you like who you are? If so, he was a part of your making. He can't be that bad. Mom had the same part in your making. So, you don't always see eye to eye. – Pandora

  I may not have been as clear as I could have been. That happens with me every now and then.

  My parents were/are both very good people. I like and love them both. I could easily tell you what traits and dispositions I got from both of them (and yes, I like myself – despite the faults I know I have). The point of this thread is only a question I've toyed with in my mind: is the dream of something better than the reality. Is really really wanting that new bike in some ways better than the getting of it? (I'm probably *still* not expressing myself well enough...)

  Dreams are fine ... but, in order to achieve these dreams, you had better face reality or you will not accomplish the dream/goals. – Shutterbug

  In one of the best chick flicks you'll ever see (The Bridges of Madison County) Robert Kincaid (Clint Eastwood) said

  The old dreams were good dreams; they didn't work out, but I'm glad I had them.

  If you saw the movie, then you know that it was a very poignant line. Dreams sometimes have a worth all their own. My youngest (JW) sister sometimes talks about seeing our father and grandmother again one day in the new order – after the resurrection. It's a living dream/wish of hers. Am I better off "knowing" that she's just dreaming? Living in a fantasy? Or is *she* better off having the dream?

  Just a thought.
• 

  Cowboy

  Interesting thoughts,teejay.

  I'm glad I knew my parents like they were.We didn't always see eye to eye,but on the whole we got along better than most,and my dreams of them are just they were.Or at least just how I remember them...I think all of our realities our tinted somewhat by our dreams.I do understand though,why some would prefer a dream to the reality of their relationship with their parents.

  As to the other part though,I think we're better off not knowing.If we knew for sure why we were here,and what would happen next,so much of the mystery and romance of our lives would be gone.I have no doubt that alot of people wouldn't think this life was worth living if it wasn't leading them to another existence of some sort.Besides,I believe that the quest for knowledge and understanding are some of the greatest things the human race has going for it.History has shown that societies with rigid belief systems (they had all the answers,right?) tend to grow stagnate and eventually implode,in some way or another.I think the dream is what makes us what we are.

  CB
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  breal

  "Broken dreams are much more devastating than a painful reality" ~ author unknown

  Your post brought that quote to mind - not that I agree with it fully. Not sure either is better or worse but that somehow our reality and our dreams intertwine to get us through life. If one is too lost in dreaming then they may miss out on pleasures in real life and without dreams well where would one be?

  Breal
• 

  LyinEyes

  OH Teejay,,,,, I could have almost written that , the way I feel at times.

  My JW dad and I havent spoken for over a year, and since my mom committed suicide ,some 17 years ago,,, we havent been close and I feel he has pushed me away,,,,,,,, this time, I am not bouncing back for crumbs of his love or attention. So , as far as I am concerned with my dad, it is over and I don't think it will ever change,nor do I want to. There are many issues I am dealing with right now, my eyes are opening to what he really was , even when I was a little girl and thought he was right up there with Jesus in Sainthood.

  In the thread you mentioned, I said I wanted to spend the day with my mom . But there have been times in my life , when my dad ignored me and my children, when he didnt care, etc....... I wondered if my mom , had she lived would have been any better. I think she would if she would have given up drugs and gotten the help she really needed. She was a wonderful person in so many ways, but had many demons and dark places I never really understood back then.

  As I have gotten older I have come to understand her alot more, and I have forgiven her for the years of neglect and cruelty she did to me because of her drug use . I havent forgotten the bad times, in fact the bad things , the sad things, are the most of my memories,,,,,,,but I hang on to the good ones.

  I dont know if she would be any different if she had another chance , and I will never know what things would be like for us. So I do dream that she would be the way that I wanted her to be,,,,,,, but in reality, and the way I knew her, her patterns , I fear she might not change, or fall back into her old patterns as she always did.

  So most of the time, I wish she was here, to see what she would be like to me and her grandkids. And then, other times I feel that maybe she would have been just as crappy as my dad.

  So I really do understand what you are talking about....... I just wonder if I make sense.....lol.
• 

  teejay

  I think all of our realities our tinted somewhat by our dreams. As to the other part though, I think we're better off not knowing. If we knew for sure why we were here, and what would happen next, so much of the mystery and romance of our lives would be gone. I believe that the quest for knowledge and understanding are some of the greatest things the human race has going for it. I think the dream is what makes us what we are.

  Cowboy,

  I think you're probably right. I guess to have the best life possible, we need both dreams that drive us and a good sense of reality at the same time. The problem I (and many other ex-JWs) have is what Breal said below -- that many of our most important dreams have been broken. Guess we gotta find new ones to replace the old ones, but that's not always easy when you're 45.

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  "Broken dreams are much more devastating than a painful reality" ~ author unknown

  That's an interesting quote, Breal, worthy of it's own thread.

  Broken dreams and painful realities both hurt, but I tend to agree with the author. Broken dreams are worse since they have a way of making painful realities even worse.

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  Wow, LyinEyes! What can I say?

  I'm sorry – very sorry – to hear about your folks.

  When it comes to your JW dad and how he treats you, I wonder what's worse... having him treat you the way he does or having to live with the memory of having treated a loved one that way. That's what I live with. I was a "good Dub" and I ignored my oldest sister (my favorite sibling) FOR YEARS. She got married, built a life, and raised two sons to adulthood before I came to my senses about the truth™. It's not a good memory.

  I dont know if she would be any different if she had another chance , and I will never know what things would be like for us. So I do dream that she would be the way that I wanted her to be,,,,,,, but in reality, and the way I knew her, her patterns , I fear she might not change, or fall back into her old patterns as she always did. So most of the time, I wish she was here, to see what she would be like to me and her grandkids. And then, other times I feel that maybe she would have been just as crappy as my dad.

  Although my circumstances are nowhere near as tragic as yours, I understand what you mean. The reality is there in front of you... but you still dream of something different. My mother was never what you'd call a nurturing mother. Kinda tough when you're all alone raising six kids by yourself. Not enough time to be June Cleaver. I know I never will have that kind of relationship, but I wish I did. I still dream.