You just can't win .......................

by integ 9 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  integ

  With staunch jw's you just can't convince them to even take a look at the possibility they may not be the all encompassing " Truth". At least on the surface, they will not admit that everything is not perfect. Maybe deep inside they have some doubts about certain things, but their pride will not allow them to ever change, it seems. The Societies, and the average jw's, greatest defense mechanism right now appears to be that the "Faithful Slave" speaks directly from God himself. So ANYTHING the slave says or does is okay. Example: How can you win when you ask a faithful dub...'Why would the watchtower join the UN for ten years when in their own publications it has been blasted so often for being a "deplorable" worldly entity, destined to be one of the chief vehicles Satan will use to war against God's servants? ANSWER FROM DUB: "There must be some GOOD reason for it. Obviously it HAS TO BE Jehovah's will, or the Society would'nt have done it, I'm sure they'll put out an article about it sometime". The preceding example actually happened to me, talking to a family member. After I had presented some exhaustive examples of Society flip flops, and errors to this family member, from the Societies own publications, the response I received was "SO WHAT"?. How do you respond to that? See, this is what I'm talking about, sometimes you just can't win. If this is the reasoning of the majority of the rank and file witnesses, and the leaders, then we really have an uphill battle. Someone reassure me our work is not all in vein.

  Thanks,

  Integ.
• 

  Sirona

  Hi Integ

  I know exactly what you mean. It is SO infuriating. They will not accept that there is any flaw and if there happened to be a flaw, well thats down to "human error" and nothing to do with "the society". "The society" is not human to them - "The society" is God's channel. Its the individual JWs who make the errors and even then its all pre-planned by Jehovah to "teach us something" or whatever. Blah Blah Blah.

  Your efforts are not all in vain though. Some people have left once they've been shown the facts. Some of my family admit to certain things now say concerning blood or whatever, and maybe (I hope) that is the thin end of the wedge. Once they acknowlege *some* flaws they begin to look at other things with a critical eye.

  Chin up.

  Sirona
• 

  Lady Lee

  It isn't. It takes a lot of time for a JW to begin to allow thoughts and doubts about the orgaization to really enter his mind.

  Most people don't have a problem saying what they think.

  JWs have been taught that to think is a sin. They certainly will not look at inforamtion no matter how "good" it is and flat out accept it. I think that is too much to ask a controlled mind to do. If they acknowledged to you the error they would be suddenly thrown into disequilibrium.

  They need time to think about it (if indeed they are going to think about it) For those who will think about it hey need time for the information to settle into the mind, for them to roll it around and see if it fits, for them to look at the inconsistencies.

  They not only have to deal with the piece of information you just gave them but they have to deal with

  • the supposed sin.
  • the ramifications of accepting this piece of information
  • the possibility they have been wrong
  • the possibilith the organization is wrong
  • the possibility they have been lied to and decieved
  • what this means if they act on it
  • and the real chance of leaving everything and everyone they know and care about

  This is a lot to ask after even a dozen information sessions

  You plant the seed - they have to allow it to settle and grow
• 

  blondie

  They have to be ready for it. You don't know that you might have planted a seed of doubt that will bloom in time. I wouldn't have gotten into a discussion about the flaws of the WTS a few years ago, but then I started seeing the unloving behavior over and over, several child abuse cases came to light that proved to me that the articles in the magazines were merely window dressing. Then when I came here, everything fell into place. Just give them a little bit to chew on.

  Blondie
• 

  NeonMadman

  If I were talking to a JW with that attitude, I think the question I'd like to ask them would be this:

  "If the Governing Body became apostate, how would you know?"

  The knee-jerk response might be, "Jehovah would never let that happen to his organization," but you could respond by asking where Christendom came from, if that is so. Remember, they believe that all of Christendom today represents an apostasy from God's true organization of the first century. Also, how many times did the leadership of Israel, "God's organization" of ancient times become corrupt?

  Hopefully, you could use that question to jar them into realizing that they are following men, and that the men they are following have no accountability to any human for anything they do.
• 

  Gadget

  If people think you are having a go at them they'll just clam up and ignore everything you say to them. But if your friendly and chatty with them, they'll get comfortable with you and let their guard down. If you make a thought provoking comment as part of the conversation, then immediately change the subject as if nothings wrong, their guard will stay down but the idea will stick in their head until something triggers the memory and they atart thinking about it. This is a big problem in prisons, where the inmates are constantly trying to get at the officers, Its conditioning.
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  onacruse

  Sirona, LL, and blondie, I couldn't agree more. It's not about "winning or losing," as if I was still in the JW-mindset of "I can prove I'm right, and here's where you're wrong."

  Our lives are so complex, it's often very hard to see what drives us, much less figure out how to "fix" someone else.

  Just keep "casting the bread on the water," and let others take what they will, when they can, if they want.

  Craig
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  Gopher

  Having grown up in the organization, I remember stubbornly thinking that the JW's HAVE to have the truth, even if there are "small" flaws in the organization. From birth on I was taught that they were the organization belonging to the Almighty God.

  It was only after I experienced the cruelty of the judgmental nature of the elder arrangement. Then I was ready for the real scoop about the religion in which I had been brought up.

  So to boil it down, people will listen when they're ready. Then we can be there to help them and support them as they find out new things and make their way to a new life of freedom.
• 

  DJ

  Hi Integ...

  I hear ya. IMO, it's fear that used to stop me from being able to hear what was true or false. I had some doubts but I either blamed it on myself or was just too afraid to voice them any further. I figured that they knew (GB) what they were doing and I just coudn't understand because I was not one of them. I believed some things that they taught and no one else anywhere was teaching those things...so I was stuck. I think that all jws have their doubts but it is a matter of finding the right doubt for each individual and helping them to overcome the fear of thinking for themselves. It is a monumental task, imo. I have family members who have certain doubts but the....where else can I go...thing is too strong for them still. That is fear. Love for God and truth should cast out this fear but the GB has paralyzed them with fear and they cannot even love. All things are possible with God. I don't think that the majority of the world, including Christians can understand the depths of the jw fears and paralyzation. Sad, isn't it?
• 

  happyout

  My mom and her friends always say "Where else would we go?" meaning that since they know all other religions are false, they can't leave the "truth" and go back to false religion. Such muddled thinking really tires me out.

  Happout