The revolting morality underpinning martyrdom.

Island Man

The three Hebrew boys chose death over bowing down to lifeless idols. Early christians refused to sacrifice to the Emperor's genious. JWs in nazi Germany refused to sign a document that will result in their release or spare them from execution. They are all praised as integrity keepers.

But what do these scenarios say about the morality of the god of the bible? How does putting a perfunctory signature to a piece of paper, change the love that a JW has for God in his heart? How does perfunctorily bowing down to a lifeless idol to save your life, change the fact that you know it's lifeless and you give your true worship only to God? Is it moral or loving for God to punish people for performing perfunctory acts to save their life and which do not truly reflect their feelings toward him in their heart? To illustrate my point consider other similar scenarios:

Imagine a scenario where a man's wife is given the ultimatum of being asked to put her signature to a document stating that she doesn't love her husband, or face a gruesome death. What would you think of this man if he wants his wife to refuse signing the document under any circumstances? It does not matter to him that she would not really mean it and that she really does love him in her heart. He would rather see her die than compromise her integrity to him by putting even a disingenuous signature at the end of the document. Is this a man who really loves his wife?

Consider a bank teller who complies with the demands of an armed robber pointing a gun at her. She fills his sack with wads of cash, fearing for her life if she does not comply. Does that make her a robber? Is she deserving of being charged for criminal conduct because of her actions? Should she be fired for compromising her integrity to the bank? What would people think of the bank if she was fired for her actions? Shouldn't we think the same of a god whose actions are comparable?

John Free

I explained to my Borg sister recently that I have never felt better, the headaches which I had been suffering with for a few years have completely stopped, as- in my opinion- the stress of being in a control group that I knew was false- has evaporated away.

She said 'you might feel better but that's because you've stopped enduring'

Lol

They actually think God wants them to live tiring and stressful lives.

OneEyedJoe

Well said. I like the analogies you used - that really gets to the point. It seems that the only conclusion you can come to when examining the evidence is that god does not love mankind, he only loves himself. He doesn't care about our suffering and simply wants more people to worship him. That's why martyrdom is important - if people worshiped privately and silently then they would not spread their religion and that's the real goal.

I'm glad that asshole doesn't actually exist.

EyesOpenHeartBroken

Islandman-

Excellent line of reasoning. I could see this being very helpful in speaking with still trapped in loved ones. Thanks for your post.

DATA-DOG

Very true!

So, how does a Christian reconcile your reasoning with the biblical requirement of dying by the sword to be "Saint"? If you can't endure till the END, Jesus will cast you off into the eternal flames of Gehenna.

That very conundrum has made me believe that the Bible is corrupt and to become an agnostic, at least as far as the Xian God is concerned.

I believe is an ultimate source, but it ain't Jeehoobidoob...

DD

stuckinarut2

Fantastic thread!

Excellent reasoning! (if the old style ministry school existed, I would mark you a "G" for 'illustrations' and 'audience helped to reason')

The same thoughts have occurred many times! If LIFE is valuable and should be RESPECTED as a gift from god, then why throw it away by being martyred to death?

SURELY god KNOWS what the real feelings are within a loyal one's heart, regardless of whether a bit of paper is signed or not!!

The Rebel

With respect to the Jehovers Witness " Martyrs" this is the true History of the society and National socialism.

"Be it known once and for all that those profiteering. conscienless, selfish men who call themselfs Jews, and who control the greatest portion of the finance of the world and the business world, ......Golden Age 1927 Feb 23 p 343.

" In the 1934 year book the society wrote " that it supports the principals of the German government straightforwdly (p 136) and that the defended very high ideas proclaimed by the national government are stated and endorsed and strongly underlined in its publicaions ( p 137) it also states that it's literature, it's work instead of being a threat with the government principals is the firmest defender of such high ideas (p138)

Of course most Jehovers Witnesses are not aware of how the organisation fully supported Hitler, ( Which is why I have highlighted sources and pages). However when the German government wanted to take control of the organisations property, Rutherford with total disregard for the well being of the German witness started :-

A) Baiting Hitler, which is the consequence that they ended up in concentration camps.

B) Rewritting it's support for Hitler, and condemning him. (The writings most are familiar with)

So " The revolting morality underpinning martyrdom" for a witness in a concentration camp was in the mistaken belief it was for Jehover. But the reality was they were worshipping an organisation whose leader Rutherford was responsible because he was more concerned about the societies property in Germany than the welfare of his German followers.

Sad but true the Witnesses fully supported Hitler ,National Socialisam and the persecution of the Jews. So much for neutrality.

The Rebel.