Baptism as a Symbol of Dedication - Anther unbiblical doctrine of men

by doubtfull1799 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  doubtfull1799

  I'm not sure if this has been discussed before - I did a brief search and couldn't find anything on this particular aspect.

  For those Atheists who believe it is all nonsense anyway, feel free to ignore this post. I happen to be of that same persuasion but I still enjoy discussing it on a philosophical level.

  Its funny how you may have left because of the more "out there" doctrines and chronology etc not making sense and you come to see that they are going "beef the things written", but the longer you're out and the more you think about your old beliefs, even the most common basic or "fundamental" doctrines are also "going beyond the things written.

  Baptism as a symbol of dedication is a case in point. I cannot find any scriptural support for this idea at all. Every Biblical mention of baptism (by water) is as a symbol of repentance, or acceptance/belief - it has nothing to do with making a vow or dedication. I checked the Insight Book & Reasoning Book entries on Baptism and they confirm as much. So how on earth did we all come to accept such an unbiblical proposition as "truth?" Well indoctrination obviously. But it continues to amaze me how blind I was to it, how manipulated my thinking was, how far the twisting of scripture went....

  And this false doctrine is used against us when we wake up - when we leave we are accused denying our baptism because we are breaking our dedication vow. But that is a completely unscriptural accusation as Baptism is not a symbol of any such vow. That is completely a Watchtower Society construct. And of course we know why - THEY want us to dedicate ourselves to do God's will, at least His will as they interpret it for, which really amounts to THEY'RE will. Another tool in their high control methodology.
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  waton

  Hebr. 10: 7-10 : "--I have come [ to baptism] to do your will--" is cited to by wt writers, not of dedication, but of an public , symbolic act, declaration to do "god's" will

  God, like in Guardians Of Doctrine aka F&DS, GB at spiritual war in warwick. meaning made clear by :

  Spirit directed Organisation, not HS.
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  Finkelstein

  The WTS leaders twisted it so that all JWS members make a solemn dedication to them, that's why its a part of the baptism talk/ceremony.
  
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  Cold Steel

  Baptism was viewed by the early Christians as more than just an outward display of inward commitment, but as a covenant. That's why John 3:3-7 records:
  

  3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

  4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?

  5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

  6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

  7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

  Baptism is required for all men (and women) who gain eternal life. This is what was meant as being born of the water. Being born of the Spirit is receiving the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands. The JWs believe that all who are baptized receive the power to become ministers of God with the authority to preach, teach, expound, exhort and baptize. The strange thing is, men cannot baptize their own children in the Organization, though I know of nothing that specifically prohibits it. The Organization won't recognize it as official unless it has one of its own elders perform it and until the baptizee answers a pledge of loyalty to the Society.

  The Bible never specifically states what will happen to those who never have the opportunity of being baptized. If someone must have these to gain eternal life, that leaves a lot of people seemingly hanging. The Bible also never answers the questions of how to baptize, who may baptize and what one must say while performing it. When ancient ordinances were performed in the Old Testament, they required that the priests do it. We also know the first century Christian Church had priests, deacons, teachers, bishops, seventy and elders. Did these positions require ordination and instruction? We don't know because the Bible was never intended to be a church manual. We know that Jesus ordained his apostles, but beyond that, nothing.
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  Laika

  Doubtfull, you are quite right that baptism is never connected to 'dedication' but...

  Every Biblical mention of baptism (by water) is as a symbol of repentance, or acceptance/belief

  Go further than this. The bible never calls baptism a symbol either.

  (good thread btw)
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  Crazyguy

  Cold steel Jesus never mentions baptism in these scriptures your assuming being born of water is baptism, where's your proof??
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  Finkelstein

  Baptism was a action for a person to commit themselves to Christ as a dedicated relationship with him toward his purpose of preaching his new Kingdom arrangement apostatizing others and as symbol of his redeeming sacrifice for mankind's sins.

  There is no Scripture that states it an act of dedication to the top apostolic leaders or the GB of the WTS as it may be.
  

  .Question: "What is the symbolism of water baptism?"
  
  Answer: Water baptism symbolizes the believer’s total trust in and total reliance on the Lord Jesus Christ, as well as a commitment to live obediently to Him. It also expresses unity with all the saints (Ephesians 2:19), that is, with every person in every nation on earth who is a member of the Body of Christ (Galatians 3:27–28). Water baptism conveys this and more, but it is not what saves us. Instead, we are saved by grace through faith, apart from works (Ephesians 2:8–9). We are baptized because our Lord commanded it: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19).
  
  Water baptism is for believers. Before we are baptized, we must come to believe that we are sinners in need of salvation (Romans 3:23). We must also believe that Christ died on the cross to pay for our sins, that He was buried, and that He was resurrected to assure our place in heaven (1 Corinthians 15:1–4). When we turn to Jesus, asking Him to forgive our sins and be our Lord and Savior, we are born again by the power of the Holy Spirit. Our eternal salvation is guaranteed, and we begin to die to ourselves and live for Christ (1 Peter 1:3–5). At that time we are scripturally qualified to be baptized.
  
  Water baptism is a beautiful picture of what our Lord has done for us. As we are completely immersed in the water, we symbolize burial with our Lord; we are baptized into His death on the cross and are no longer slaves to self or sin (Romans 6:3–7). When we are raised out of the water, we are symbolically resurrected—raised to new life in Christ to be with Him forever, born into the family of our loving God (Romans 8:16). Water baptism also illustrates the spiritual cleansing we experience when we are saved; just as water cleanses the flesh, so the Holy Spirit cleanses our hearts when we trust Christ.
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  stuckinarut2

  Baptism is really just like presenting a ticket at the door to an exclusive club before entering....