when caesar's recognition is unavailable

bathsheba

What to do?

Hello to everyone. I am new here, just been three days browsing around.I wonder if anybody can encourage me.

I came from Philippines. I was baptised in France. I am married in Philippines to a non JW.My husband commit adultery 1999, i file a legal seperation case in Phil court based on evidential facts,(he got a baby with his mistress).

My petition of legal seperation is denied. My country has no divorce. Annulment of Marriage is tough. The Catholic Church intervenes with the state. Grounds of annulment is allowed if one of the spouse is crazy or psychologically incapacitated to hold the marriage.Plus the cost of hiring a lawyer, cost 2,000 euros for annulment case.

Year 2001 I met a wonderful brother.He serves as an elder-secretary, of our congregation in France ,been 30 years in serving Jehovah.He proposed marriage, i said i cant because i am not free legally to remarry. He said we can, he will ask the help of the 3 other elders. He explained to me about the vow of faithfulness stated on Watchtower 1977 page 182-185.He added the book Peace and Security page 148 p.16.And he cited scriptures on Mat.5:31,32 and Mat. 19:9.

Whew! i was impressed! I cant believe the Jehovah is so loving to give provision like that to my situation.He happily and jumping with joy approach the 3 other elders,

DENIED!

He insist! He got a warning to be disfellowshipped! He went to Bethel France, they said they will investigate. After two months (September 11,2001 ,he was announced disfellowshipped. I was not.The reason of dfd is disobeying the 3 elders. I didnt like it, i asked the 3 elders for a discussion.They told me i am not free to remmary.I asked which law it says that i cant?They said if i insist they will dfd me too. I asked my lawyer (he is a brother-lawyer for Bethel Manila) He said i can avail the provision of vow of faithfullness, because our country has no divorce. Even in Philippines without filing a petition to dissolve the marriage in Caesars' law, this vow of F is granted.But as i am not an elder there, i cant help you.

October 24,2001,I went back to the 3 elders showing them an affidavit my husband gave me ,stating my freedom from him in moral , social and legal means.Stating also that if i wish to remarry, he will not oppose to it. This affidavit was signed by my husband in front of my lawyer and have it documented.I got the copy and show it to the 3 elders asking them again if now i can avail Jehovah's provision.They said no. It has to be stamped by the Philippine court first then you can.Besides they added, that provision is applied only in Philippines but NOT in Europe.

My question to them was this:

If i got a stamp from the Philippine court that i am free to remmarry , i dont need to ask the vow of Faithfullness , do i? They dont want to know.

December 25,2001 i was announced dfd too after three judicial hearings.My violation is Romans 13:1 (not respecting the law of the land).

December 26 ,2001 i moved in with the brother elder and we until now still continue going to the meetings( except book studies), never missed assemblies and conventions regardless of the stares from curious bros and sis we've known for so long, and still hoping and patiently waiting for the elders' mercy when can we be back.Oh by the way, we change congregation, and i am happy because i learn the french language.

bathsheba

sorry, as a newbie,i made a mistake. I should have put this in other topics. Please dont be mistaken that i am joking.

Bathsheba

worldlygirl

Count your blessings and move on. You are lucky to be out.

Euphemism

Bathsheba... while all are welcome in this forum, you will find that most of us do not believe that the Watchtower Society is God's organization. If you're comfortable with that, then by all means please stay, and welcome! Many of us here have been victims of injustice at the hands of the WTS, so you will find a lot of sympathy here. I'm glad to hear that you didn't let the bull-headedness of the local elders stop you from being with the man you love. :)

Gadget

I assume you are in France now? Can you not apply to be divorced in a French court, where divorce would be legal. I have no legal knowledge of France so I don't know if this would be possible. You will not be reinstated until you have shown repentance by putting your legal situation right, ie, divorced from your ex, and married to your new partner. If this is not possible to do you will never be reinstated. Do you want to spend the rest of your life being shunned, only to die at armagedon, or would you like to get on with enjoying life with your new partner.

hippikon

Do you have French nationality / Citizenship / residency? There may also be an element of raceism in the elders decision. I know a lot of people use that particular watchtower loophole to try to remary so they are very strict about applying it.

Reason for predudice may be justified - I have a freind who married a lady from the Philippines last December. As soon as she got her Australian residency ( 3 weeks ago ) she left him and took everthing in the house and sponsored her "Philippino Husband" into Australia. I know this is common but on the other hand I know a lot of Australians who are happily maried to Philippino woman.

bathsheba

i am asking from the elders to recognize us only as husband and wife within the organisation. The vf is only for those in the organisation.Concubinage is legal in France.They dont bother if couples live together sans marriage. There is even a law called PAC to marry gays and lesbians.

I dont have legal papers in France. I been informing the immigration about my status last January 2003.I ve been paying my 4 years taxes, got a social security number from the French govt, got a home to live and good work as house employee in Monaco ,got four employers who wants me legalise my status by sending dossiers in Prefecture de France.Since I am in France i got a minimum condition , got even three bank accounts and subscribed life insurances. Still waiting.

By the way what has it got to do if i married the brother in the organisation? I t will not change my status in France because the marriage will be ONLY recorded in the Organisation , France will not recognize marriage outside the Municipal Hall.I understand that there are lots of MARRIAGE BLANC all over the world for paper purposes. I understand that perfectly well. But then is it what the organisation should think also to a brother and sister? When did they start working for the State?

All i want is to be in good standing before Jehovah thru the vf but refused. Now my ex had married the mistress (i dont know how he did it) i am now working for the annulment base on bigamy ground. Cost me a lot.But it will be another hard battle because of the Church. It may take two years if lucky.Got six years if unlucky. My relatives suggests bribes to the judge. My lawyer and the brother said no. I f Jehovah is with you, He will give you the requests of your heart.

bathsheba

LDH

still hoping and patiently waiting for the elders' mercy

Yes, and I can't find my winning lottery ticket from last night's $18 million jackpot either!

The only authority those assholes have over you, is what you give them.

Stop wasting your time subjecting yourselves to the stares of people who are not truly your friends.I am not familiar with French OR Phillipine law, so I can't help you with that. The only help I can give is to tell you that you do not have to comply with the JW Elders wishes. Your eternal salvation does not hinge on them.

Lisa

Don't hold your breath Class

bathsheba

Lisa, you're right. Good enough i got the courage to handle all these. I was betrayed by my stupid husband, persecuted by those i believed i can count on, has to spend money again to a new annulment case just to be free to remarry, olalalah lots to decide.

I had to wait for the elders' decision. I can wait a long time, the answer is never.I had to wait for the judge decision, the same, i had to wait for the French govt hmmn maybe there's a hope there. Anyway, i have vent my side to this column, i am happy that i got encouraging words, really, if i didnt decide to live with the brother, and let the elders dictate me with my life ,what will be our situation? He will show being a good boy in one corner, i will be on my own too, while under the disfellowshipping verdict. On top of that we never get anything

One comment about my disfellowshipping was:

"So as a disfellowship sister, you are not in the book of life anymore, is it?

I said: who knows, you think those who are inside ,sure to be in the book of life?

bathsheba

when caesar's recognition is unavailable

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