Pagel's latest "Beyond Belief"

by Panda 7 Replies latest jw friends

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  Panda

  Elaine Pagel's recent work Beyond Belief, the secret gospel of Thomas gives some excellent examples of questioning what we have been taught and looking into all of the interesting historically "hidden" books of Christianity. I especially appreciated her explanations of why so many interesting writings never made it into the sanctioned Bible.

  What I got from this book was that power is/was the road to acceptance. The leaders of the church who were accepted by the emperor (read that as Constantine) got to manipulate the Holy writings into their own form. Any "books" which did not endorse their theses were nixed. Traditionally, since the time of Irenaeus those who would reface the Bible were concidered heretics. Pagels quite clearly explained the treatment of heretics in her earlier work The Gnostic Gospels. Very gruesome indeed.

  This new work attracted me because she relates more of the spiritual incite even into the church fathers. I wonder how many JW's know that Christian scholars today agree that we do not know who wrote the four gospels, or that most christian belief about Christ comes to us from Ireneaus (who was dogmatic to say the least and tyranical at worst). The early christians were "evil interpreters" if they drew any mystic evaluations about the gospels as relating to other non-canonized writings. Elaine Pagels writes across to her readers so that we understand because she understands...

  So, have you read this? What did you think?
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  Navigator

  I haven't read the book, but thanks for your very interesting review. I certainly will put it on my reading list. Not having been raised a witness, I am very aware that it is unlikely that any of the apostles wrote anything contained in the bible. I agree that we don't know who wrote the Gospel accounts. I have a copy of the Gnostic Gospels, but was not aware that she had published a second work. Regarding your comment about how the bible was put together: "He who writes the minutes of the meeting gets to say what happened". They certainly left out a lot of good stuff which was circulating as "Writings" at the time the New Testament was cononized.
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  dedalus

  My wife gave me The Gnostic Gospels for father's day, and it's quite good. Like you, Panda, I find it fascinating to read about a whole society of people whose views and writings were supressed so thoroughly that their history is unknown to virtually all Christians today (you know, the church-going variety). I like the Gnostic idea that one cannot know Christ by looking outward, toward religion, but by looking inward. Faith through private introspection -- better, in my book, than faith through dogmatic doctrine. Not that I'm Gnostic, or even Christian.
  

  I have a copy of the Gnostic Gospels, but was not aware that she had published a second work.

  Actually, Navagator, this is not her second work. Amazon.com can list a bunch for you.

  Dedalus
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  kgfreeperson

  She is a wonderful writier, isn't she? The point that hit me between the eyes was that there came a point where a choice had to be made--institution or no institution? The writings which pointed people toward discovering and developing the Jesus within them (very poor paraphrase) had to be stamped out because no church could be built on that kind of personal spirituality. For a religion, you need an us against them, a saved and unsaved. So "love God, yourself, and all other people" as a philosophy was just too simple and way too broad to support a religion. I expect that Ireneaus believed he was protecting God just as the governing body does. I, too, heartily recommend "Beyond Belief."
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  Panda

  kgfreeperson

  Yes I think that point was very clear. And it always boils down to power. Constantine wanted to unite his many peoples so how about using some blue collar religion AND elevate it to white color (and throne).

  "Yes I may be the great emperor but I serve god too... see I've got a cross and had a vision" It just sounds so obvious but he did pull it off, didn't he...

  Something else you probably noticed was along the spiritual lines you already mentioned. That Pagels brings in the Jewish mystics and the kabbahlah, which ask for guidance by spirit and trance. To walk with god in heaven while still alive. Like John, to have visions which defy explanation to any who didn't have this vision. As with Paul too, the visions were always deeply personal in nature.

  Now if the early christians thought that they could get this w/o a priesthood well, Iraeneus ,Athenaseus and the rest had a real problem on how to unite these "mystic" christians into the law abiding church goers who were needed to prove their (Irenaeus, ad nauseum) legitimate positions.

  And what about those notes! A 185 pg book with 35 pages of notes!
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  Maggie

  Panda...okay I will read both the books...you as always are an amazing person....I would like to share a thought with you dear one....that what ever you do or believe your life is not shortened or wasted if you do it with passion...don't ever let anyone take that from you....more than agape ...more than that....your sis of the heart Maggie
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  Double Edge

  There are several un-canonized books I have enjoyed reading. Also, wasn't sure if you knew of the theory that Mary Magdalene might have written the gospel of John.... interesting. Here's a link to info, or you can type into Google: Mary Madalene Gospel of John:

  http://www.allsaintssanfran.org/Mary%20Magdalene/Mary%20Magdalene%20as%20author%20of%20the%20Gospel%20of%20John.htm

  Good post... thanks.
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  Panda

  Yes I've read about Mary Magdalene and the gospels of Mary Magdalene. How incredible that we have lost the wonderful lessons she taught as Jesus had taught her. And since she saw the ressurrected Jesus, well w/o her would there have been this Christianity we have today? I doubt that.