by BoogerMan 7 Replies latest social current
"England's winning run in their Euro 2024 qualifying campaign came to a halt as they were held to a draw by Ukraine in Wroclaw. Ukraine were backed by 40,000 of their own fans in the Tarczynski Arena, giving the game the fervent feel of a home fixture as they are unable to play in their own country because of the war with Russia." https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66692946
Is the conflict with Russia ongoing? If it is, it's good that so many were given time off to watch a game.
The main purpose of the war is to provide US arms manufacturers with a source of revenue. If I was Ukrainian I wouldn’t be eager to die as canon fodder for US and UK interests at the behest of foreign leaders looking out for their own selfish gain such as Boris Johnson who famously and wickedly scuppered a peace deal in April 2022.
Concluding that there was a peace agreement in place by early April of 2022 would be reading rather a bit much into what actually did occur around that time.
That such an idea ever did get into circulation was the result some bad reporting. An article was published in Foreign Affairs magazine, in which two respected commentators (Susan Hill and Angela Stent) stated "Russian and Ukranian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated settlement."
Notice their use of such terms as "appeared" and "tentatively" - and even then only with reference to the mere outlines of a "negotiated settlement" (In other words, barely achieving any more than just establishing the agenda for any such discussions). Stent and Hill's report, while offering a glimmer of optimism, still strongly implied a fair measure of "ifs", "buts" and "maybes"! However, the way in which that Foreign Affairs article was subsequently reported has led to the circulation of much misinformation.
Any such ideas about a formal, negotiated settlement were fairly and squarely laid to rest as early as 7th April, 2022 (i.e. two days before Boris Johnson's visit to Kyiv). On that day, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov announced that Moscow had in fact rejected the terms of the draft peace agreement which Ukraine had proposed. He claimed that it contained "unacceptable elements" that "deviated from proposals which negotiators from both sides had earlier agreed to".
Definitely, during the spring of 2022, no peace agreement was signed between Ukraine and the Russian Federation. Further, it was Russia who rejected the draft proposals submitted by the Ukraine, and this happened some two days before Johnson's visit.
(Hardly surprising when you think about it. The Russian negotiators were all low-level political figures without even any direct access to Vladimir Putin. They were certainly not invested with any plenipotentiary powers, and thus had no authority to sign anything).
Whether they were close to an agreement or not might be debatable but however close they were to an agreement it’s clear that Boris Johnson urged the Ukrainians to “fight on” rather than settle with the Russians, which is just evil in my opinion. Many thousands have lost their lives since then. War urged on by the kind of people who would get a doctor to declare them medically exempt before fighting themselves, and busy working out how to make money out of the situation.
I'd love to hear the thoughts of all the foreign fighters who have travelled to "help" Ukraine.
I know what I'd be thinking.
The Ukrainians are victims in all this. I’m sure they’ve experienced the whole range of emotions from patriotism, bravery, fear, anger, confusion. Turn our anger against those who profit from war.
As for people who go and join other people’s wars I’m a bit let charitable. I’m sure there’s some good intention there, but a lot of weirdos and psychos too who feel they are missing out if they’ve never been in a war.
Boris Johnson's advice to the Ukraine was primarily based on distrust of Russia - skepticism that Putin would not in fact honour any peace accord between the two countries.
In that, Johnson was far from alone. Respected Ukranian political journalist Roman Romaniuk revealed that members of Zelenskyy's inner circle harboured exactly the same doubts as to Putin's trustworthiness on this matter. Also - and most tellingly - a subsequent poll found that more than 80% of the Ukranian population feel the same way towards Vladimir Putin.
As well they might!
Russia has a bad track record for completely disregarding an agreement once such ceases to be advantageous to itself. (e.g. The 1941 Non-Aggression Pact with Japan). Furthermore, Russia will use so-called "peace negotiations" to prolong a war, as it did in Korea. This tactic- often referred to as "Talking and fighting for advantage" - was used by Russia and its allies to extend the Korean War by over two years, and turned that conflict into a proper War of Attrition (which always favours the side with the greatest amount of manpower at its disposal). In this present war with Ukraine, Russia would be holding all the advantages if this, too, were to turn into one of attrition.
Ukraine could indeed have had peace - if it were to have completely capitulated to Russia. That, though, is an extraordinary thing to expect of any sovereign country. Also, a path of pacifism seldom ends happily.
In this part of the world (the South Pacific) there is the 19th Century example of the Moriori people of the Chatham Islands. The Morori had adopted a culture of non-violence, and elected to pursue the same course when faced with invasion by the Māori from New Zealand. All that did, however, was lead to their rapid conquest, enslavement and then virtual extermination as a people. (We could also mention the allied leaders of the late 1930s, who mistakenly thought that they could prevent another world war by giving in to Hitler).
Given its past record, any hesitancy about engaging in "peace talks" with Russia is quite understandable.
''40,000 of their own fans''
Only 40,00? Why so few?
According to https://data2.unhcr.org/en/situations/ukraine
there's about one and a half million Ukrainians have applied for asylum in Poland.
