Governing Body...God?

by integ 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • integ
    integ

    I have run into the ultimate brick wall with a Jw family member.....This person has listened to my spiel about false prophecies, Un, pedophile cover ups, etc, etc. And after agreeing that there have been "mistakes", and "adjustments in thinking" etc, it has all come down to this:.... The Governing Body are God's representatives on earth, and regardless of the past mistakes they have made as mere "humans" they are still Jehovah's channel of communicating with the congregation. When I asked why the Gb differs so much from the first century cong., the reply was: 'Yes in some ways, but this IS God's organization, and if they feel like changing thing's it is Jehovah's will'. I then asked....'Do you believe EVERYTHING the Watchtower magazine says'? Answer.."YES, It's the TRUTH'. So imagine my dilemna here. I fear this is a common 'thought' among JW's. It does'nt matter how many prophecies are exposed to be false, how many scandals erupt, how much "New Light" crap is presented, everything can be explained away by 'it's THE TRUTH'. I think alot of the Jw's, if not most, are worshipping the Governing Body now. SERIOUSLY. They may even rank above Jesus right now.

    Frustrated,

    Integ.

  • outnfree
    outnfree

    ((((((((Integ)))))))))

    I feel your pain!

    this IS God's organization, and if they feel like changing thing's it is Jehovah's will'.

    This statement is plainly stupid. Jehovah doesn't change. God cannot lie. Those are scriptural precepts. "God's organization" should be encouraging people to do things God's UNCHANGEABLE way. The Society screws people up by endlessly touting "Bible principles" and then putting their spin on what the Scriptures indicate (take the ridiculous "Should I get a mobile phone" question in the YPA book mentioned in another thread).

    The frustrating thing is the flip-flops. Where one JW would have sworn at baptism they believed the GB that the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah would have no resurrection as they had already been judged, another would have sworn at baptism they understood that those same inhabitants would receive a resurrection and a second chance, etc., etc. Who was right? Who was "Truthful?" Didn't BOTH those pieces of information come from the Governing Body? Which is God's will? How does the GB know? What if the former JW in the example got DF'd for not agreeing with the "new light"? When that light switched back, did the elders go back and reinstate him, begging forgiveness because he had insight which they did not?

    Have you even asked them to prove to you that the JWs ARE God's organization? Actually prove it? They will not be able to do so without your accepting major ASSumptions they will put forth as fact.

    Of course, sounds like you're talking to people who wish to keep the status quo. Sorry about that.

    outnfree

  • coffee_black
    coffee_black

    It is the common minset among jws. They have been told this so many times they believe it as fact, but most will not even remember how they came to that conclusion, or what evidence convinced them of it.

    Just ask them how they know that the governing body is Jehovah's only representative on earth. Ask them to prove it from the Bible.

    Ask them why they think that the organization is the truth, when Jesus clearly said "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Peter said "To Whom" (not where, as the wt has misquoted) shall I go away to...You have sayings of everlasting life". Jesus made it very clear. It's not an organization that brings salvation. They can't give it or take it away. God doesn't take orders from the wt society.

    Coffee

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    Are Jehovah’s Witnesses False Prophets?

    What does the bible say?

    *** Reference Bible Deuteronomy 18:20-22 ***

    20 "'However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 And in case you should say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?" 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it . You must not get frightened at him.'

    *** Reference Bible

    15 " Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep's covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them...

    Have Jehovah’s Witnesses and the “Faithful and Discrete Slave” ever made a false prediction of Jesus’ Coming?

    *** Awake! 1993 March 22 pp.3-4 Why So Many False Alarms? ***

    Jehovah's Witnesses , in their eagerness for Jesus' second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions 'in the name of Jehovah.' Never did they say, 'These are the words of Jehovah.'

    1889 "In the coming 26 years, all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved." (C.T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 98-99, 1889)

    1908 "In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished at the end of A. D. 1914." (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1908 ed.; p. 99)

    1917 "And the mountains were not found. Even the republics will disappear in the fall of 1920. And the mountains were not found. Every kingdom of earth will pass away, be swallowed up in anarchy." (The Finished Mystery, 1917 edition, p. 258)

    1917 "It is the Day of Vengeance, which began in the world war of 1914 and which will break like a furious morning storm in 1918." (The Finished Mystery, 1917, p. 404)

    1920 '...we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men of Israel from the condition of death, being resurrected' (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, p. 88)

    1920 'Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old' (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, p. 89-90)

    1922 "The indisputable facts, therefore, show that the "time of the end" began in 1799; that the Lord's second presence began in 1874." (The Watchtower, March 1, 1922)

    1922 '1914 ended the Gentile Times...The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures...by then the great crisis will be reached and probably passed' (Watchtower Sept. 1,

    1922, p. 262)

    1923 '1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures...the Christian has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had (so far as the Scriptures reveal) upon which to base his faith in the coming deluge' (Watchtower April 1, 1923, p. 106)

    1925 "The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything." (Watchtower 1925, p. 56)

    1940 The Kingdom is here, the King is enthroned. Armageddon is just ahead. The glorious reign of Christ that shall bring blessings to the world will immediately follow. Therefore the great climax has been reached. Tribulation has fallen upon those who stand by the Lord. (The Messenger, Sept. 1940, p. 6)

    1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end" to the world, even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that He was using and guiding them.'' (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968)

    1989 Jehovah’s prophetic word through Christ Jesus is: “This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.” (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment...
    The Watchtower 1984 May 15 pp. 6-7

    1989 "The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century." (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1989, p. 12 [bound volume changed "20th century" to "day"])

    Jehovah's prophetic word through Christ Jesus is: 'This generation (of 1914) will by no means pass away until all things occur.' (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment of his Son's words in a relatively short time." {WT May 15 1984 6}

    Do Jehovah’s Witnesses claim to be a prophet of Jehovah? Do Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that Jehovah God speaks through them?

    *** Awake! 1986 June 8 p.9 "Would That All Were Prophets!" ***

    You will be interested to learn that God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets , or witnesses for God. In fact, they are known throughout the world as Jehovah's Witnesses.

    *** Watchtower 1964 June 15 pp.365-6 Jehovah, the God of Progressive Revelation ***

    THE KINGDOM'S ESTABLISHMENT

    22 As Jehovah revealed his truths by means of the first-century Christian congregation so he does today by means of the present-day Christian congregation. Through this agency he is having carried out prophesying on an intensified and unparalleled scale . All this activity is not an accident. Jehovah is the one behind all of it. The abundance of spiritual food and the amazing details of Jehovah's purposes that have been revealed to Jehovah's anointed witnesses are clear evidence that they are the ones mentioned by Jesus when he foretold a "faithful and discreet slave" class that would be used to dispense God's progressive revelations in these last days. [...]

    23 The holy spirit of Jehovah is working mightily today! How thankful we should be for the provision God has made of this slave class, the modern spiritual remnant, as they faithfully dispense the revealed truths of Jehovah ! With these rich truths to light the way, Christians do not grope in this dark, jungle-like world as do the masses of people in Christendom and heathendom alike. To the contrary, Jehovah's faithful witnesses have been progressively brought to an understanding of Jehovah's purposes, which are clearer now than ever before in history . Their organization, being patterned after the first-century Christian congregation, is blessed by Jehovah. He has prospered their work of preaching "this good news of the kingdom" in 194 different lands to date. Each year they gather into the organization tens of thousands of new ministers, clearly a product of Jehovah's spirit operating through his invisible King-Son and his angelic representatives, then through his faithful slave class on earth today.- . 24:14.

    *** Watchtower 1964 October 1 p.601 Pay Attention to Prophecy ***

    for God has on earth today a prophetlike organization , ... Jehovah's anointed witnesses on earth.

    *** Watchtower 1965 June 1 p.352 Questions from Readers ***

    New features of the work have required new methods, which has meant revisions and changes from time to time in organization instructions, but it is all a part of the advancement of Jehovah's theocratically controlled organization under the immediate direction of Jehovah God himself. Therefore, these revisions and changes are themselves fully theocratic, so they do not alter in any way the fully theocratic structure of the organization.

    *** Watchtower 1972 August 1 p.458 Loving Oversight of the Congregation of God ***

    THEOCRATIC APPOINTMENT IN THE CONGREGATION

    10 But who is at the head of this rapidly expanding congregation, you ask? Is it some brilliant, farsighted man, some human who is a master organizer? No, for the Christian congregation is operated theocratically, meaning that it recognizes the leadership only of Jehovah God as exercised through his Son and enthroned King, Jesus Christ. (Isa. 33:22; Heb. 12:2; Rev. 19:16) This is what makes the congregation theocratic in structure, adhering to God-rule. If an organization is to be fully theocratic, it must be directed and controlled altogether by God and by the forces he operates. It is vital, therefore, that each one recognize that Jesus Christ is the Head of the Christian congregation, as well as showing proper regard for those on earth who have been theocratically appointed to positions of oversight.-Phil. 2:9-11; 1 Cor. 11:3; Acts 14:23.

    *** Watchtower 1981 February 15 p.19 Do We Need Help to Understand the Bible? ***

    OUR VIEW OF THE "SLAVE"

    We can benefit from this consideration. If we have once established what instrument God is using as his "slave" to dispense spiritual food to his people, surely Jehovah is not pleased if we receive that food as though it might contain something harmful. We should have confidence in the channel God is using . At the headquarters from which the Bible publications of Jehovah's Witnesses emanate there are more mature Christian elders, both of the "remnant" and of the "other sheep," than anywhere else upon earth.

    *** Watchtower 1981 December 1 p.27 The Path of the Righteous Does Keep Getting Brighter ***

    Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones ... Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do.

    *** Watchtower 1983 February 15 p.12 You Can Live Forever in on Earth-But How? ***

    A third requirement is that we be associated with God's channel, his organization. ... Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it.

    The Watchtower recognizes the truth as belonging to Jehovah, and not to any creature. The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men. No man’s opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. God feeds his own people, and surely God uses those who love and serve him according to his own will. (Watchtower 1931 November 1 p. 327)

    Jehovah God is therefore the only Supreme Court of interpretation of His inspired word.... To such remnant of faithful servants of Jehovah God Christ Jesus has entrusted all “his goods”, or earthly interests of the Kingdom. This does not signify that the faithful remnant or society of Jehovah’s anointed witnesses are an earthly tribunal of interpretation, delegated to interpret the Scriptures and its prophecies. No; Christ Jesus the King has not entrusted that office to them. THE SUPREME COURT STILL INTERPRETS, thank God; and Christ Jesus, the Court’s official mouthpiece of interpretation, reserves to himself that office as head of Jehovah’s “faithful and wise servant” class. He merely uses the “servant” class to publish the interpretation after the Supreme Court by Christ Jesus reveals it. (Watchtower 1943 July 1 p. 202, 203)

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    The Governing Body are God's representatives on earth, and regardless of the past mistakes they have made as mere "humans" they are still Jehovah's channel of communicating with the congregation.

    Questions:

    What about the other Governing Bodies in the world? Many other religions have "governing bodies" composed of older men. For example the Jesusits have a governing body. The Mormons have "apostles and older men" leading their church also. These all claim to be the one true church organizations. many religious organizations are ruled by groups of older men. many of these cliam to represent Jehovah.

    Why doesn't the Bible use the term "governing body" ? The word governing is used in Matthew 2:6 KJV why is this word not used in Acts 15?

    Where does the bible say that the "governing body" would someday be located in Brooklyn New York?

    Where did the governing body move to after Jerusalem fell in AD 70?

    Where was the governing body from the time of the apostles until the watchtower first mentioned it in 1944 Watchtower (12-15-1971 p. 755-757).

    Why did the Watchtower not mention the Term "governing body" until 1944. How can the Wt claim that a governing body existed before this time?

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    Russells time:

    "Having up to December 1, 1893, thirty-seven hundred and five (3,705) voting shares, out of a total of sixty-three hundred and eighty-three (6,383) voting shares, Sisiter Russell and myself, of course, elect the officers, and thus control the Society; and this was fully understood by the Directors from the first. Their usefullness, it was understood, would come to the front in the event of our death." A Conspiracy Exposed and Harvest Siftings 4-25-1894 (written by Russell)

    "For more than thirty years, the President of THE WATCH TOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY managed its affairs exclusively, and the Board of Directors, so-called, had little to do. This is not said in criticism, but for the reason that the work of the Society peculiarly requires the direction of one mind." Harvest Siftings 8-1917 p. 10 (written by Rutherford)

    So we see that during the period of Russell, the WTBTS Board of Directors was not much into "governing" the society. This would be fine, except for the fact that the WT magazine now seems to be re-writing the Societies history as seen below.

    From the incorporation of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania in 1884 until 1972, the president of the Society exercised great authority in Jehovah's organization, while the Governing Body was closely associated with the Society's board of Directors. Watchtower 5-15-1997 p. 17

    To give the Bible Students legal status, Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society was incorporated in 1884 in the United States, with headquarters in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Its directors served as a central Governing Body, overseeing the global preaching of God's Kingdom. Watchtower 2-1-1999 p.17

    In fact the term "Governing Body" is not found in the Bible. I believe that it is a legal term, used to describe the directors of corporations as well as cities. In my home town the city directors are referred to in the news paper as "the governing body of the city of _______________ " The Watchtower Society has taken a modern legal term and has read it back into the Bible in order to make the early christians have the same arrangement that the WT Society does today!

    Furthermore they have also re-written this same term and concept back into their own history in order to make the early "Bible Students" have the same arrangement that the WT Society does today!

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    Watchtower publication index 1986-1999 quoted from 1999 cd rom

    WATCH TOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF PENNSYLVANIA

    board of directors: w90 3/15 18

    opposition to Rutherford by four members (1917): jv 66-8

    relationship to governing body: w97 5/15 17; jv 228, 233: w 90 1/15 26; w90 3/15 14, 17-18; je 26

    Using the Watchtower's publication index as an outline lets now look at the arcticles, to see what happened in Rutherfords time:

    w90/3 15 18

    *** w90 3/15 17-18 Cooperating With the Governing Body Today ***
    There were legal requirements involved in publishing magazines and other Bible study aids. Hence, the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society was set up and registered in the state of Pennsylvania, U.S.A. For years, the visible Governing Body came to be identified with the seven-member board of directors of this corporation established to publish the Bible study aids needed and used by the Lords people earth wide.

    10 The Societys seven directors were faithful Christians. But their role in a legal corporation might have suggested that they owed their positions on the Governing Body to their being elected by legal members of the Watch Tower Society. Furthermore, by law such membership and its voting privileges were originally granted only to certain ones who made contributions to the Society. This arrangement needed to be changed. This was done at the annual meeting of the Pennsylvania corporation of the Watch Tower Society held on October 2, 1944. The statutes of the Society were amended so that membership would no longer be on a financial basis. Members would be chosen from among faithful servants of Jehovah, and these have come to include many serving full-time at the Societys headquarters in Brooklyn, New York, and in its branches throughout the world.

    13 Until 1971 those of the Governing Body were still identified with the seven members of the board of directors of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. The Societys president carried the main load of responsibility for making decisions affecting the operation of the Societys branches throughout the world. But epoch-making talks were delivered at the annual meeting held on October 1, 1971. The Societys president spoke on the subject "Bringing the Holy Place Into Right Condition," and the vice president on the topic "A Governing Body As Different From a Legal Corporation." What difference is there between the Governing Body and the legal corporation?

    14

    As already mentioned, the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania has a board of directors limited to seven members. These dedicated Christian men are elected for three-year terms by corporation members totaling no more than 500, the majority of whom are not anointed Christians. Moreover, since the corporations existence is purely legal, with a fixed geographic headquarters, it can be dissolved by Caesar, that is, the State. (Mark 12:17) However, the Governing Body is not a legal instrument. Its members are not elected. They are appointed through the holyspirit under the direction of Jehovah God and Jesus Christ. (Compare Acts 20:28.) Moreover, those making up the Governing Body are spirit-appointed men without any obligatory fixed geographic location or headquarters.

    Here is a summary of points from the above arcticle:

    1. From the incorporation of the WTBTS until 1971 the Governing Body was the seven member Board of directors. These were faithful Christians.

    2. While the fact that the Governing body members were also on a legal board might have suggested that they owed their positions on the GB to their being elected, this was not actually the case.

    3.The Governing Body members were not elected but appointed through the holy spirit under the direction of Jehovah God and Jesus Christ.

    jv 66-8

    Not everyone was supportive of the new president. C. T. Russell and J. F. Rutherford were very different men. They had different personalities and came from different backgrounds. These differences were hard for some to accept. In their minds, no one could fill Brother Russells shoes.

    A few, especially at headquarters, actually resented Brother Rutherford. The fact that the work was moving ahead and that he was making every effort to follow the arrangements that had been put in place by Russell did not seem to impress them. Opposition soon mounted. Four members of theboard of directors of the Society went so far as to endeavor to wrest administrative control fromRutherfords hands. The situation came to a head in the summer of 1917, with the release of TheFinishedMystery, the seventh volume of StudiesintheScriptures.

    Brother Russell had been unable to produce this volume during his lifetime, though he had hoped to do so. Following his death, the Executive Committee of the Society arranged for two associates, Clayton J. Woodworth and George H. Fisher, to prepare this book, which was a commentary on Revelation, The Song of Solomon, and Ezekiel. In part, it was based on what Russell had written about these Bible books, and other comments and explanations were added. The completed manuscript was approved for publication by officers of the Society and was released to the Bethel family at the dining table on Tuesday, July 17, 1917. On that same occasion, a startling announcement was made the four opposing directors had been removed, and Brother Rutherford had appointed four others to fill the vacancies. What was the reaction?

    It was as if a bombshell had exploded! The four ousted directors seized upon the occasion and stirred up a five-hour controversy before the Bethel family over the administration of the Societys affairs. A number of the Bethel family sympathized with the opposers. The opposition continued for several weeks, with the disturbers threatening to "overthrow the existing tyranny," as they put it. But Brother Rutherford had a sound basis for the action he had taken. How so?

    It turned out that although the four opposing directors had been appointed by Brother Russell, these appointments had never been confirmed by vote of the corporation members at the annual meeting of the Society. Therefore, the four of them were not legal members of the board of directors at all! Rutherford had been aware of this but had not mentioned it at first. Why not? He had wanted to avoid giving the impression that he was going against Brother Russells wishes. However, when it became evident that they would not discontinue their opposition, Rutherford acted within his authority and responsibility as president to replace them with four others whose appointments were to be confirmed at the next annual meeting, to be held in January 1918.

    On August 8, the disgruntled ex-directors and their supporters left the Bethel family; they had been asked to leave because of the disturbance they had been creating. They soon began spreading their opposition by an extensive speaking and letter-writing campaign throughout the United States, Canada, and Europe. As a result, after the summer of 1917, a number of congregations of Bible Students were split into two groupsthose loyal to the Society and those who were easy prey to the smooth talk of the opposers.

    Here is a summary of points from the proclaimers arcticle.

    1. Four members of the Board of Directors (a majority) opposed Rutherfurd.

    2. Rutherford used the fact that their positions on the Board of directors had not been confirmed at annual elections to dismiss them from governing the Society.

    3. The arcticle admits that these members were appointed by Russell.

    W97 5/15 17

    From the incorporation of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania in 1884 until 1972, the president of the Society exercised great authority in Jehovah's organization, while the Governing Body was closely associated with the Society's board of Directors.


    Summary of the 1997 arcticle:

    1. Those directors were members of the governing body! (a majority at that!)
  • hooberus
    hooberus

    Conclusion: using the watchtowers publication index as an outline we find the following:

    Watchtower publication index 1986-1999 quoted from 1999 cd rom

    WATCH TOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF PENNSYLVANIA

    board of directors: w90 3/15 18 [ comments: GB =7 member board of directors. They don't hold their postion on GB by being elected by corporate members, but by appointment of "holy spirit"]

    opposition to Rutherford by four members (1917): jv 66-8 [comments: majority of directors kicked out because of not being elected by corporate members]

    relationship to governing body: w97 5/15 17; jv 228, 233: w 90 1/15 26; w90 3/15 14, 17-18; je 26 [comments: directors were the GB, hense the majority of GB kicked out even though they were appointed by "holy spirit"]

    Conclusion: Since Jehovah speaks through the majority of the GB. The watchtower ceased being God's channel when the majority of the GB was kicked out in 1917.

  • Ginosko
    Ginosko

    Must a JW put faith in the FDS?

    If you quickly ask this question to a JW friend, you'll probably receive a Yes for answer. I believe that several JW will quickly ask Yes. But then you can ask: Is it proper to put faith in a human organization?

    I never tried this approach because actually I'm DA, but who knows, maybe could work for some JW's.

  • hooberus
    hooberus
    ginosko said: But then you can ask: Is it proper to put faith in a human organization?

    This is a great question to ask

    The January 15, 1970 Watchtower p. 37-40 contains arcticle titled:

    "Which Comes First- Your Church or God?"

    "The "first man" represents the believers who remain faithful to their church out of loyalty to the religion they were brought to believe in. Thier attitude is: Right or wrong, it is my religion! Is that the way you feel? If so, you are certainly a loyal person. But to whom do you owe the greater loyalty-to your church, or to God? With so much disbelief rife throughout the earth, you are to be commended for maintaining your faith, but where should your faith be placed-in a religious organization, or in God?" p.37

    "The "second man" mentioned in the Nouvel Observateur represents those Catholics and Protestants who stay with their church because they do not know where else to go. They havebeen taught that their church represents God, and they do not want to turn away from him. They disapprove of many church practices or doctrines, but they hope to reform their church from within. Typical of these are the 744 French Catholics who, in November 1968, sent a long open letter to the pope. In it they stated: "Today the Christian needs to live in a 'true' Church . . . Therefore all that is false, contrary to the Gospel and scandalous within the Church today wounds the Christian." Then followed a long list of grievances against the Catholic Church and it current teachings and practices. Yet, toward the end, these catholics expressed their unconditional adherence to their church by alluding to John 6:68 and stating: "Who could we go to? In her [the Roman Catholic Church] we find the One who has words of eternal life." p.39

    I beileve that this Watchtower arcticle can with a few simple questions be used effectively to separate the witnesses "Loyalty to God" from "Loyalty to the Organization". The Issue of faith in a religious organization being separte from faith in God is addressed nicely. Also issues of "where else to go" and the misappication of John 6:68 from Christ to a "church" or "organization" can be very effectively brought up using this arcticle.

    In an earlier post the follwing was given by a former witness as some of the reasons for staying in the Watchtower Organization.

    "Obstacles/hinderances: Loyalty. Thinking that there was no where else to go. Fear of the unknown. Believing God and the Watchtower were inseperable. Believing we would lose Gods protective barrier and bring death on our family (Like Job) if we left."

    I believe that the above article can be used effectively and non-offensively to deal with these common issues.

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