Jst2laws, I have not ignored you!

by IslandWoman 9 Replies latest jw friends

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  IslandWoman

  Islandwoman,

  I have made several efforts to communicate with you and you have ignored me.

  I posted on the now locked thread that I had already answered your PM. Please scroll up a post or two and you will see where I quoted the time of my reply. I did not ignore you! (For any inquiring Mods wondering why I am posting this on the forum rather than in PM: Jst2laws accused me on the forum of ignoring him I therefore am answering him on the forum.)

  Just before the thread was locked I had written a post to everyone here in order to clarify some things but it was lost.

  I am not taking sides. I do not love Bill Bowen and I do not love Ray Franz. I agree with some of the things they have both said and done and disagree with other things they have both said or done.

  I am my own person, I have no loyalties to either man only to my conscience.

  I posted an apology that's all.

  I'm out of here.

  IW

  P.S. Jst2laws, if you did not get my reply see Simon about it. I ain't gonna write another one!
• 

  jst2laws

  Islandwoman,

  Lets take a break from it all. A good nights sleep and maybe we can talk tomorrow.

  Good night!

  Jst2laws
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  IslandWoman

  Sorry to tire you out Jst2laws. You accused me of ignoring you, I responded both to your PM and to your accusation.

  There is no tomorrow for me. Like I said I am out of here.

  The Watchtower is not the only place where "unity" of thought and speech is required, it is also required here.

  IW
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  studying

  The documentation about Ted Jaracz, Chitty and Greenlees stands on its own merits.

  The credibility of silentlambs.org, founder Bill Bowen and Ray Franz are all high.

  Ray Franz should be more supportive of silentlambs while alive by telling all that he can, but even after he passes on he may yet leave something behind in writing.

  And even if not there are many others who can speak out.

  Watchtower is running scared of the lawsuits facing it, declining donations, having to tweet if not fake attendance stats and the like.
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  Simon

  I don't think anyone has the right to tell Ray Franz what to do - he is an old man and has really done enough.

  IslandWoman: Your comments about uniformity of thought are wrong and insulting. There is as much diversity of opinion here as you will find anywhere.
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  jst2laws

  Hello Studying,

  Other than last night we have not had the privilege of meeting. Welcome to the board.

  I agree with most of what you say above (although I might not use the word "documentation" to describe what I view as tentative evidence). This is a big issue the WT is facing, they have messed up badly and are just beginning to face the consequences.

  However, to be most effective we need to keep emotions and unfounded suspicions separate from the real issues. We also need to recognize who our friends and allies are and avoid unnecessary damage to their reputations and ability to function as whistle blowers on other WT issues.

  Your comment that R. Franz should "be more supportive of silentlambs while alive by telling all that he can" suggests he is not telling "all that he can". I hope you can understand that because child molestation is a serious crime to suggest a person is withholding information about this crime is no small matter. No one should suffer such charges or even implication of complicity without substantial evidence. No evidence was being presented last night, just the same old accusations. That is why I locked the thread.

  We are for the same cause, Studying. We just need to keep focused to be effective and at the same time attentive to the rights and reputations of others.

  Jst2laws
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  LittleToe

  The other thread, that this one is a spin off from (and which got locked before I could respond) got me royally p*ssed off. That's a rare occurance, so please forgive me a little for saying my piece.

  Why should anyone have to support anything, just because another says so?

  It appears to be a very JW mentality to suggest that just because one is deemed an "apostate" that they have to be involved in everything going. That's without belabouring the point of judgementalism.

  I have a great deal of respect for Ray and what he has brought to light.
  I also have a great deal of respect for Bill, whom I have met and were it not for his bulldog attitude to wrestling with the WTBTS I suspect very little of the paedophilia issues would have come to light.
  I have also met Jst2Laws and have nothing but the highest regard for him. He's neither condescending nor arrogant. If he's being read that way, then perhaps a step back for perspective may be needed.

  Each has his niche of work, so who are we to say what each must support in the way of effort to bring truth to light?
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  Scully

  Little Toe writes:
  

  Each has his niche of work, so who are we to say what each must support in the way of effort to bring truth to light?

  I couldn't agree with you more.

  I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Ray Franz did not have to write Crisis of Conscience. Nobody would have been the wiser had he not. In doing so, he did a huge service to those of us who left the JWs over issues of conscience of our own. His books will continue to do a huge service to JWs and exJWs after he passes away. I think he has done more than enough to help each and every one of us. Let him live out the rest of his days in peace and quiet.

  There is more than enough Watchtower to go around for each and every one of us to find a cause worthy of our support, whether it's doctrine, hypocrisy, child abuse, financial scams etc. We must each do what we personally feel is the most beneficial for us to do.

  added by edit: Sometimes, when we ask ourselves "what can I personally do?" the answer we get is "nothing". That answer, the one we arrive at after self-examination, needs to be respected as well.

  Love, Scully
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  Big Tex

  Ray Franz should be more supportive of silentlambs while alive by telling all that he can

  Forgive me, I don't want to appear as fanning the flames as that is not my intention, but this is the sort of comment that has been bandied about before about Ray Franz and I don't understand. Tell all he can about what? It's the sort of statement that implies a lot, but says very little. Should be -- by whose standard? Didn't we all learn something about sitting in judgment on others whilst being JWs? Isn't this the same attitude?

  While I can surmise that Ray Franz probably supports silentlambs' goal, I don't see why he should be supportive of the organization. I think it's a mistake to make silentlambs an all or nothing proposition, as in if you don't support silentlambs you are for the Society's pedophile policy, etc.
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  jukief

  I agree wholeheartedly with Big Tex. I find this whole discussion of what Ray Franz should and shouldn't do appalling. Ray is an old man, and he's already dedicated the past 20 or so years of his life to helping people. He responds to everyone who writes him, no matter how long it takes. He talks to people for hours on the phone. He invites people into his home. Who can even estimate how many hours he's spending writing, updating, and translating his books, which I think have helped more people than any other single information source? It's insulting to suggest that he owes anyone anything. Let the man pick his own battles, for christ's sake. Hasn't he done enough?

  I have to say that I run into a less complicated version of this attitude in my life. My husband has spent the last 10 years (at least) of his life, almost every waking minute that he wasn't at work, helping people--researching and writing long articles, writing posts and email, talking for countless long hours on the phone. It gets tiring, believe me, not just for him but also for his family. I can't imagine how Ray and Cynthia deal with it; the demands on their time must be a million times worse than what Alan and I deal with. I think we should all just be grateful for all Ray has done and leave it there. Just because he was a member of the governing body many years ago doesn't mean he has an obligation to get involved in every issue. And, personally, I don't blame him a bit for not wanting to get involved with Bill, given the things Bill has done to alienate even some of his most ardent supporters. And before you jump on me for this statement, let me say that Alan has done as much or more to support and help BIll than anyone--not just in terms of time and effort, but also financially.

  Julie F