I thought this was such a well written article I decided to cut and past it here

by joe134cd 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • joe134cd
    joe134cd

    I read this article on exjwreddit and thought it was so well written, that just summed everything up. I've cut and paste it. Here is the link to it on reddit.

    https://m.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/4spw99/where_have_all_the_jws_gone/

    I joined the WT church as a young man, every congregation I went to, as well as the assemblies, had plenty of older folks. When you see the statistics from PEW RESEARCH's Which U.S. religious groups are oldest and youngest? article, it gives validity to what you hear "on the street", that this is not the case anymore. There are just not as many "older ones" at the Kingdom Halls.

    Perhaps part of the reason that was "way back when” was that the strong message of "Don't have children!" was still promoted by the higher ups, and still echoed to a degree in JW culture. Almost every JW over 50 that I met when I joined, was a long-timer, whether born-in or having joined as a much younger adult.

    I have often heard comments referring to the "older ones dying off." Yes, old people die. But I wonder ifthat is really the biggest reason for the current demographic breakdown. After all, take a look at all the churches at the higher end of the list in that PEW RESEACH article. They have very high older memberships. And why wouldn't they. It is well established that the older generations have higher church attendance that younger generations. Also, there is no evidence, or even indicators, that JWs die substantially earlier that the general population, or other church memberships.

    I am speculating here, but this is my two cents on the demographic breakdown:

    The older generation, especially pre-70s JWs, had seen changes in the WT and lived through failed expectations, too. Many stuck through it faithfully. Even the post 1975 debacle exit did not account for them leaving in droves. (After all, there was a pre-1975 surge, specifically because the 1975 scare tactics. A good portion the 1975 aftermath was certainly a loss from that surge.) Older JWs still remaining faithful makes sense, from the JW perspective, because the 1914 Generation dogma was still intact, and the end was even closer. Reallyclose.

    It wasn't until the 90's that the 1914 Generationdogma was deemphasized by the WT. By that time, the strong Don't have children mantra had also faded out. Babies were popping out at a much greater rate, and there were more children in the congregations. What followed over the next 10-15 years was that the organization began to lose the long-standing, reserved, conservative, and dignified demeanor, in many ways, that was the hallmark of JW culture. Other community-enhancing traditions, such as JW prepared foods at assemblies, were changing. (We still prepared hot entrees when I joined) As were long-time organizational methods, such as specified donations for literature. Perhaps one of the most dramatic changes during this period came in form of the WT teaching and literature itself. Sure, the WT's specific behavior guidelines kept flying in, as did condemnation of everything WT deemed "worldly" and rooted in "false religion." But, there was an extreme dumbing down of WT literature. The look and quality of the physical material were modernized, but this was a matter of style over substance. It may be difficult for anyone born in the last 30 years to grasp the insensitive of that change to those who lived through it as adults, but anyone who attended the weekly book study using the now out-of-print, 1973 "God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached" book (and more than once! :O) can tell you that change in not just materials, butdepth of study was substantial and striking.

    I believe these changes are at the real reason for the loss of older JWs.

    Today we see fluffy, sparse literature, with an emphasis on sending people to JW.org if that have even the most minimal doctrinal questions. We now see bored, disinterested, shoe-gazing "cart witnessing" (reserved for pioneers no less!). We now see sanctioned Texas Line Dancing replete with Levi's, Stetson's, and Tony Lama's right on the Kingdom Hall platform. We now see a sanctioned and Bethel-made, secret video "Happy@Bethel" featuring the music of an R&B/Hip-Hop star, which is one of the two specified types of music that if you admitted to listening to precluded you to being accepted at Bethel not so long ago. In addition to the abandonment of the core 1914 generation doctrine, we have seen backpedaling and softening of some hard-core, line-in-sand, rules and dogma, such as the end of enforced "bedroom laws", the acceptance of "blood fractions," and allowing of post high-school "technical" education. Even the cult-specific language has changed. Anyone here talk about the "new order" at the Kingdom Hall? The list goes on and on and on.

    Despite the heavy cult behavioral modeling, the increased separatism, the escalated shunning, the amplified scare tactics, and the cartoon-based mind-control videos for children, and all the heartbreaking, hypocritical, and damaging bullshit that millennial JWs go through every single day, organization is nowJW Lite in so many way compared to 40 years ago, when the organization was brimming with "older ones."

    The current WT organization, along with modern JW duties and culture, has become practically unrecognizable to the 65 and older bracket and probably most of the 50-84 bracket as well. "This ain't your grandfather's Watchtower Society." Or, as might be said these days,

    I'm proposing that there has not just been an exodus of young JWs, at twice the ratio of all other Christian churches, in recent years. But, that the older generation who have seen these monumental (to them) changes, especially the total failure and abandonment of the 1914 foundation dogma, have simply been leaving in masses; "fading," as we call it on this sub.

    An exodus of older JWs would have different characteristics than that of younger JWs, which would likely mask the reality of phenomenon, both in and out of the organization. For many reasons, most JWs in their twilight years are far less likely to go the DA route, less likely to engage in exJW activism, less likely to heavily socialize with others and talk about their decisions, and more likely to just quietly move on and live out their life as best as they can. They are also unlikely to change their lifestyle into a noticeable and overtly "worldly" lifestyle and those who are in the prime of their life, which attract the attention of the local congregations.

    Inside, the organization would not be concerned or focus any action on them directly, or organizationally. The org doesn't really care about the well-being of members. They are focused on the corporate holdings and future viability of the org. WT needs younger members for the future, not older ones. Local Elders will often chalk their "inactivity" up to health issues, or being old and worn out. Congregation members simply will say "Oh, poor brother so-and-so" or "Oh, I miss sister so-and-so" and that will be it. Since they are mostly not on Facebook 1^ and not at the meetings, it is out-of-sight, and out-of-mind for them. The copious accounts of JW culture from ExJWs attests to the reasonableness of this characterization. The transformation of the organization's informational delivery systems—JW.ORG, JW Broadcasting, big screen video delivery to both conventions and Kingdom Halls, iPads instead of paper at meetings, WT phone App, YouTube channels—and the relaxing of the JW's internet use restrictions are direct, volitional moves toward bolstering younger membership. As are the many recent changes listed in the above paragraphs, especially the comparatively next-to-nothing requirements to be a publisher.

    There are so many compelling reasons from an "old school" JW perspective that would cause even the most enduring ones to simply walk away from the new Watchtower 2.0.


    1^ Just over half of adults over 65 use the internet at all. High School grads or less, and those earning under $50K annually are a much smaller portion of online users. Less than half internet users over 65 are on Facebook. That demographic are the most sporadic. JWs over 65 fall into all of the lowest catagories.

  • shepherdless
    shepherdless

    Here is the Pew Research source:

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/11/which-u-s-religious-groups-are-oldest-and-youngest/

    Someone else has posted it a few days ago and commented on it.


    Yes, the reddit article is well written. However, I think the author of the article misunderstood the statistics. The author appears to be comparing Jehovahs Witnesses to a bunch of "mainline" protestant religions, noted that those protestant religions had greater proportions of over 65s, and drew the conclusion that over 65s are leaving Jehovahs Witnesses in droves.


    Looking more closely at the data and the original 2014 Pew Report, what is actually happening is that protestant religions (particularly what Pew defines as "mainline") are dying rapidly. Because the chart contains lots of smaller protestant religions, and (for example) only one line for Catholic, it creates a skewed initial impression.


    The best way to look at the chart is to compare JW to the "All US adults" (shown two thirds the way down). Its the adults under 29 that are missing, not the over 65s.

  • shepherdless
    shepherdless

    Just to add a point, the reddit author may well be correct about when he/she says, "There are just not as many "older ones" at the Kingdom Halls." It may be that those older ones that no longer attend still nominate themselves as being one of Jehovahs Victims Witnesses whenever questioned as part of a survey, such as Pew Research.



  • Heaven
    Heaven

    "There are just not as many "older ones" at the Kingdom Halls."

    Well, my Dad doesn't attend anymore. He is chronically ill. My Mom is dead, so are most of her family that were JWs, and so are a lot of their friends.

  • Magnum
    Magnum

    Interesting; thanks for sharing. The parts that really resonated with me:

    It wasn't until the 90's that the 1914 Generation dogma was deemphasized by the WT. By that time, the strong Don't have children mantra had also faded out…… What followed over the next 10-15 years was that the organization began to lose the long-standing, reserved, conservative, and dignified demeanor, in many ways, that was the hallmark of JW culture…….. Perhaps one of the most dramatic changes during this period came in form of the WT teaching and literature itself…… there was an extreme dumbing down of WT literature. The look and quality of the physical material were modernized, but this was a matter of style over substance. It may be difficult for anyone born in the last 30 years to grasp the insensitive of that change to those who lived through it as adults, but anyone who attended the weekly book study using the now out-of-print, 1973 "God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached" book (and more than once! ) can tell you that change in not just materials, butdepth of study was substantial and striking…… Today we see fluffy, sparse literature, with an emphasis on sending people to JW.org if that have even the most minimal doctrinal questions. We now see bored, disinterested, shoe-gazing "cart witnessing" (reserved for pioneers no less!). We now see sanctioned Texas Line Dancing replete with Levi's, Stetson's, and Tony Lama's right on the Kingdom Hall platform. We now see a sanctioned and Bethel-made, secret video "Happy@Bethel" featuring the music of an R&B/Hip-Hop star, which is one of the two specified types of music that if you admitted to listening to precluded you to being accepted at Bethel not so long ago. In addition to the abandonment of the core 1914 generation doctrine, we have seen backpedaling and softening of some hard-core, line-in-sand, rules and dogma, such as the end of enforced "bedroom laws", the acceptance of "blood fractions," and allowing of post high-school "technical" education. Even the cult-specific language has changed. Anyone here talk about the "new order" at the Kingdom Hall? The list goes on and on and on…….The current WT organization, along with modern JW duties and culture, has become practically unrecognizable to the 65 and older bracket and probably most of the 50-84 bracket as well. "This ain't your grandfather's Watchtower Society." Or, as might be said these days,….. The org doesn't really care about the well-being of members. They are focused on the corporate holdings and future viability of the org. WT needs younger members for the future, not older ones…… The transformation of the organization's informational delivery systems—JW.ORG, JW Broadcasting, big screen video delivery to both conventions and Kingdom Halls, iPads instead of paper at meetings, WT phone App, YouTube channels—and the relaxing of the JW's internet use restrictions are direct, volitional moves toward bolstering younger membership…… There are so many compelling reasons from an "old school" JW perspective that would cause even the most enduring ones to simply walk away from the new Watchtower 2.0.

    I'm not sure, though, that the older ones are leaving. I have not seen or heard of evidence of that. I think many of them are confused and at least subconsciously think something is wrong and recognize that JWdom is not what it used to be, but it seems to me that they are hanging on to it. I think they feel that they have nowhere else to go, whereas, younger ones feel that they still have time to 'go somewhere else', so they leave when they see behind the curtain.

    As I've said many times on this site, I'm dying to know what the few remaining old-timers - the intelligent, knowledgeable, thinking ones - are thinking. However, most of the ones I'm familiar with are gone; the calendar got them. Before long, they will all be gone, and JWdom will be able to completely rebrand without worrying about what the old-timers are thinking.

  • James Jack
    James Jack

    Our Congregation is very Old. 74 pubs and Our Meeting attendance is at 80%. 3/4 of the Congregation is over 50. 2 couples in their 30's with 3 young children, 5 teenagers.

    7 Elders(2 in their 70's, 4 in their 60's, 1 in his 50's), only 2 of the Elders have had Children. We have 6 MS in their 50's and 60's, 2 of them have 1 teenager each, the other 4 have no children.

    The Future doesn't look good for most of them.

  • sir82
    sir82

    Our Congregation is very Old. 74 pubs and Our Meeting attendance is at 80%. 3/4 of the Congregation is over 50. 2 couples in their 30's with 3 young children, 5 teenagers.

    7 Elders(2 in their 70's, 4 in their 60's, 1 in his 50's), only 2 of the Elders have had Children. We have 6 MS in their 50's and 60's, 2 of them have 1 teenager each, the other 4 have no children.

    A CO told me recently that in the USA, the average age of elders is 65. He also said there are twice as many elders as MS.

    The congregations will begin a "death spiral" some time in the next 5-10 years. Elders will die off or become so feeble as to be practically "emeritus", and there won't be anyone to replace them. So there will be less and less shepherding. Less shepherding = more people fading. More people fading = less reaching out, so even fewer MS. Fewer MS = fewer replacement elders. And so on.

  • kramer
    kramer

    Just done the maths, the average elder in my congregation is 43, we have 9 elders, you have flawed logic

  • sparky1
    sparky1

    In the congregation that my family attended in the 1970's, the average age of the Elders was 47 year old.

    In the congregation that most of my family faded from, the average age is 60 years old.

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