In the book of Luke chapter 21 it's writings are very similar to that of Matthew where Jesus is talking about the end and "this generation" . He mentions Jerusalem being surrounded and to flee. In modern times bible believers believe this generation is about thier generation and Jerusalem is refuring to spiritual Jerusalem and they point to scriptures in the book of Revelations to make the point. But here's a thought that many miss. In verse 20 in chapter 21 he says those in Judea must flee to the mountain's. No where in any other future writings in the bible is thier a mention of a Judea in any other way that I know of other then the literal place of Judea. No heavenly or spiritual Judea. So it would seem as though this is yet another nail in the coffin of the idea that the generation being discussed is any other then the generation Jesus was talking to. Or did I miss something?
This generation, Jerusalem, spiritual Jerusalem but what about Judea?
by Crazyguy 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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prologos
It was a Jerusalem & temple question, and a Jerusalem's temple answer. retreat even from the surroundings:-- Judea. -
Doug Mason
The earliest Gospel is Mark, written about 70 during the Jewish upheaval that saw the Second Temple destroyed. Mark saw the destruction as indicating the end was imminent. The Matthew Gospel was written about 10 years later, or so. By the time Matthew wrote, he/they added and amended Mark to explain why there had been a delay. The Matthew writers were not happy with Mark's so they added to it and amended it.
By the time "Luke" got around to collecting his thoughts together, another decade or three had passed. Luke, as with Matthew, included material from Mark as well as other written and oral material.
These people were all talking to their own people about their own time. They were not talking to any later generation. They were trying to explain why the expected Coming had not taken place, hence their changing language.
Other Christian groups, known today as Gnostics, laughed at discomfort of the Parousia expectations by the Pauline Christians. Hence the language of 2 Peter, which was written later again, about 120 CE.
Doug
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elbib
Even Apostle Paul had the same view that Jesus was talking about the generation of his time (not of any future generation) when he wrote: "Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come"--1 Corinthians 10:11 -
Doug Mason
elbib,
And Paul died in 64 CE, several years before the Gospel of Mark was written. Take care, of course, noting always whether Paul was the actual writer of the document attributed to him. In your case, you are on safe ground since 1 Corinthians is one of Paul's genuine letters.
So we can presume that since Paul wrote first, that Mark and others were influenced by him. (James obviously was not.)
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Gefangene
Jerusalem is in judea.
It's like a state capital
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biblexaminer
Crazyguy. It would be easy to say that "the generation" was Jesus' own generation... that when Jesus said "this" he indeed meant "this", referring to his own generation. ("this"...not 'that' or 'those')
That is the truth. Easy.
I say that knowing, however, that you are then going to move on to the next question(s).
1) What about the fact that the second coming, spoken of in subsequent verses didn't happen then?
2) What about the "sign of the Son of man"?
3) How is it that it is written that this "tribulation" would be a one-time-deal "such as had not occurred up till that time nor would happen again"?
And while you are at it, 4,5,6,7,8,9,...
117) How is it that Jesus said "not a stone would be left upon a stone" and yet there were many stones left on many other stones till this day, even an entire tower stands till today?
Answering the question about the generation will not be enough for you or anyone, unless you answer them all.
And they have answers.
Invest the time.
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Crazyguy
Biblexaminer not sure what tower your talking about but correct me if I'm wrong , the wailing wall and others are of a Roman citadel built after. -
biblexaminer
Good question. I haven't studied on this topic in a good while, and when I read your reply I went a lookin'...
I had all this information compiled somewhere about three computers ago. Now you ask me and I'm not finding anything. Looks like I have to start at the beginning with ancient Jerusalem