Take this to anyone who says "we need two witnesses for child abuse"

by StarTrekAngel 6 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • StarTrekAngel
    StarTrekAngel

    So another week goes by with another brain mushing meeting. I had not been to a meeting in two weeks. First I was out in Vegas for a business trip. The week after that, wife and I choose to stay home and have a talk with one of our kids who is having bully issues at school (not WT related, thankfully).

    I continue using the meeting to read the bible and get more and more informed on the things JWs conveniently ignore. This may not be new to many here, but in the couple of years that I have been hanging out in this forum, I never read about it. I know some mentioned that the bible never says that two witnesses are required for everything and that the legal courts should avoided, but I have never seen biblical proof until now.

    While most passages that speak of the need for witnesses seem to claim witnesses are required on every matter, Deut 17 makes it clear that some legal matters are too complex to be dealt with by the parties alone relying on witnesses.

    Deut 17:2 begins by exemplifying a case in which someone is caught worshipping an idol. The first part of the passage goes into detail about the false worshipping, citing adoration of celestial bodies. Immediately it moves down to the action. The people of the town where this happened were supposed to take the man outside the city and stone him or her to death. Before the end, it clarifies that such matter should be established by the means of two or three witnesses. If only one witness was to raise against the man or woman, then no guilt was considered.

    However, as you move down to Deut 17:8, things take a different tone. It now goes over a judicial case that is too extraordinary for you to judge. It gives a few examples which include murder, lawsuits and assault. In this case, the bible commands to go to either the priest or the judge. I believe that reading the paragraph carefully, one can see it makes a clear differentiation between the two. It also makes it clear the you should obey whatever decision the judge makes and warns against not following the judicial decision.

    Read it for yourself and tell me what you understand. In my case, I clearly understand that the bible here makes a clear differentiation between matters that can resolved between the parties involved with the assistance of witnesses and matters who need a lawful outcome, including the intervention of a judge with experience on legal matters.

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy
    I think there is also a Scripture where a girl gets raped in a field and no one hears her crying out and that man is to be killed, no witnesses there. But if that Scripture says it's that way it contradicts other Scriptures but what's new.
  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    Perhaps you are confused?

    You don't really think what the Bible says really matters to JWs, do you?

    Most JWs have never read the Bible.

    Doc

  • StarTrekAngel
    StarTrekAngel
    LOL. No, I don't think it matters to the GB but certainly it can be used with those who continue to claim the bible is the ultimate authority.
  • sir82
    sir82

    Even if you are on the right track, if you present your ideas to a loyal JW, they would say something like...

    "Well that's your interpretation! That's why we need the governing body. They have the holy spirit, so we know that their view is the one that counts.

    You aren't anointed are you? Jehovah isn't giving you more insight than he gives to the governing body, is he? Do you think you are smarter than them?"

    Believe me, if you think you can sway a JW by showing them what the Bible says, you wil be very disappointed.

    Remember this:

    To a JW, it doesn't matter one iota what the Bible says. What is most important to them is what the governing body says the Bible says.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    The guys on the RC suggested to Jackson that the "two-witness" rule might be interpreted as not necessarily applying to accusations of child abuse, and he seemed to consider it at the time, but later sent a written statement reiterating their stance.

    They're drawing a line in the sand against "Satan's World", come hell or high water.

  • possum
    possum

    Child abuse is a criminal act

    Elders/priests/monks (religious guides) have no place dealing with criminal matters "in house"

    As seen at RC elders who didn't pass on allegations of child abuse to proper authorities eg, child services/police were seen as grossly negligent putting at risk both witness children and the public.


    When your child reports that they have been sexually assaulted by a "spirit anointed shepherd of the sheep" you don't automatically start looking up scriptures

    "In Jehovah's organization it is not necessary to spend a lot of time and energy in research, for there are brothers in the organization who are assigned to that very thing, …"Watchtower 1967 Jun 1 p.338

    As a mere sister you are mentally/emotionally and thus physically captive of a fear based/high control CULT.

    "Jehovah uses his organization to teach and feed his people. (Matt. 24:45-47) Hence believe without suspicion the truth set forth by the “faithful and discreet slave.”" Watchtower 1962 Sep 1 p.524

    "If we stop actively supporting Jehovah’s work, then we start following Satan. There is no middle ground." Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.18




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