Ethics at work

by joannadandy 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • joannadandy
    joannadandy

    Today I was listening to Speaking of Faith, a program on NPR.

    http://www.speakingoffaith.org/programs/2003/08/29_whistle/

    They were interviewing Colleen Rowley, the whistle blower who worked for the FBI and wanted to investigate Mussoui, before September 11th.

    She was, and so was the host, making the arguement that having a strong religious faith allows one to do the right thing in the face of adversity, and going against the grain, not following the herd blah blah blah. The host asked, can you have ethics without faith?

    Rowley sort of lamely said that ethics can be a religion unto themselves, but it all boiled down to, being good meant doing so for a greater good.

    While I agree with that, i don't feel that the greater good is God. Which is what they were trying to emphasize (In my opinion--you can hear the interview yourself at the link I provided).

    As someone who is becoming increasingly athiest I tend to bristle at this. I am far more "ethical" and concientious of how I treat others while not being a christian. (I dunno if this is due to the fact I have matured, or because I saw how un-ethical and cruel JW christians can be despite all their hollering that they are in-fact christ-like).

    Rowley also read a poem, attributed to be at the bedside of Mother Theresa. I have heard this poem before, and have embraced it whole heartedly...but I heard this version only.

    "Anyway"

    People are often unreasonable, illogical, and self centered
    Forgive them anyway
    If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives
    Be kind anyway
    If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies
    Succeed anyway
    If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you
    Be honest and frank anyway
    What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight
    Build anyway
    If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous
    Be happy anyway
    The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow
    Do good anyway
    Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough
    Give the world the best you've got anyway

    She (Rowley) then said, she saw another version that ended with these lines...

    You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God
    It was never between you and them anyway

    This is a fine bit of thelogical rhetoric, if you ask me from an artistic standpoint it stunts the flow of the poem, and changes it's meaning. Which is the orginal reason for this post, and why I bristle that "Ethics need Religion" to be effective and followed through on.

    Speaking as someone who no longer believes in God, which is "better" Doing good because I should do good because that's what humans need to do for each other and their environment in order to survive and make life worth living, (which I believe is the message of the first half of the poem) or should I do good because someone on high is watching, and really let me have it at the end if I don't?

    This is what's always bothered me about religion. Do you do good for the sake of doing good, or do you do it for the sake of looking good during the highlight reel?

    Christians, I welcome your comments, I really do. I am not trying to sound high and mighty. How do you reconsile the two? Do you do it (being "good") for God or humanity?

  • jelly
    jelly

    As an individual (a deist) and as a person that has studied history I see no coralation between faith and ethics.

    Terry

  • 2escaped lifers
    2escaped lifers

    This is one of the problems I have had with "the truth" for a long time. Most JW's do what is right (the ones that actually try) out of fear of being killed at Armageddon, or NOT getting to live forever. They don't strive to do good, be ethical, etc., for the "RIGHT" reasons, IMHO.

    I have had so many arguments with some of them on this topic. Punishment or reward are not legitimate reasons for doing what is RIGHT, but is rather a self-centered activity. If you are really going to serve with a "pure heart", it should be simply because it IS the Right thing to do. No thought of reward if you do, no thought of punishment if you don't.

    Ethics is the same, to me. You don't act ethically in business because you might get caught, or to keep your company's reputation intact, or to keep customers. It is just the RIGHT way for humans to deal with one another!!!

    Brandon

  • joannadandy
    joannadandy

    Thanks Terry and Brandon, I have to agree with both of you--I was just wondering how others felt about this--thanks for the responses.

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    You can DEFINITELY be ethical without being religious. Being religious means being motivated by the "fear of God" in combination with "love of neighbor".

    Being ethical means you do good because it's the right thing to do, and it's how you expect to be treated. And not just because if you don't, you're afraid God is gonna getcha.

    Ethics has the elements of caring for humanity, but in its purest form.

  • mizpah
    mizpah

    Gopher:

    I was under the impression that Christians did it because of the "love of God" and "love of neighbor." Did I miss something in Jesus' teachings?

  • joannadandy
    joannadandy

    hmm...I was hoping to find people who disagreed with me so we could get in a fight, JUST KIDDING!

    No really, I was curious, but I guess this was a boring topic...

    *dashes off to make boobie threads*

  • Swan
    Swan
    As someone who is becoming increasingly athiest I tend to bristle at this. I am far more "ethical" and concientious of how I treat others while not being a christian. (I dunno if this is due to the fact I have matured, or because I saw how un-ethical and cruel JW christians can be despite all their hollering that they are in-fact christ-like).

    People of faith don't have a monopoly on ethics, morality, or altruism; they just think they do.

    Tammy

  • joannadandy
    joannadandy

    LOL!

    Thank you Tammy!

    Honestly, I sometimes wonder if I didn't stop believing in God because I can't stand his followers. My favorite bumper sticker of late was, "Please God keep me safe from your followers".

    Thanks for the laugh hun, I needed it!

  • happyout
    happyout

    Sorry, Joannadandy, no argument here

    It always ticks me off when something bad happens, and my mother says something stupid like "that's what happens with people in the world" or "people in the world don't have any morals" or the like.

    People who get to know me are usually shocked that I am non - religious, because I am moral, ethical, and nice. I go out of my way to compliment people, smile at people, and generally behave in what has come to be known as a Christian manner.

    I am more agnostic than anything, not sure I don't believe in God, but totally sure I don't understand such a being. I behave the way that I do because it makes me feel good inside, and because it's the right thing to do ( IMHO).

    Happyout (waiting for a good sparring match on some other topic)

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