Has anyone here ever followed around JW's out in service and followed them up to doors and warned householders about the religion as the Dubs were trying to make their presentation?
I might do this once to see what happens.
Counter Witnessing
by Yerusalyim 5 Replies latest watchtower bible
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freedom96
I would pay good money to see that on video!
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JCanon
Has anyone here ever followed around JW's out in service and followed them up to doors and warned householders about the religion as the Dubs were trying to make their presentation?
I might do this once to see what happens.
Oh, that's a GREAT idea. It's been done. The witnesses are trained to leave if there is any kind of confrontation like that. But this gives me ideas! If I were going to do it, I'd hand out my leaflets AHEAD of them, then the people could ask them questions and give them the leaflet. Of course, the real target would not be the people in the neighborhood but the publishers themselves since if you handed them the leaflet directly they would just throw it away. If someone in the field gives it to them, they have to check it out and report it and read it and maybe try to give some feedback. I did something similar long ago when I was sending out information to the congregation. I would mail it to the literature servant knowing full well he wouldn't know what it was and then pass it on to the elders who would probably at first shrug it off as just apostate stuff until he got into it and discovered there was a legitimate complaint. But the thing is, the witnesses are sooo wrapped up in the WTS and so not used to doing their own research and all, you'd just produce a confused witness. I'd prefer them staying put for now than floundering about. I think for them it's a matter of knowing that some things are wrong but really having no place "better" to go, so they stay by default. Still, it is a juicy idea. It wouldn't cost much to make up a few hundred foldover fliers with lots of information on it, even a half sheet. Hmmmm.... Thanks for the idea. I'll report back if I do something like that. But again, most people let their ministers do their thinking for them and can't think for themselves so it's almost a waste, even if they KNOW something is wrong, they won't act without the WTS telling them so. Anybody close to thinking on their own probably have long left by now. JCanon
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gumby
If I were going to do it, I'd hand out my leaflets AHEAD of them, then the people could ask them questions and give them the leaflet
So what would you do Jesus......run up in front of them just before the door opens and expect someone to not think your the little nutty guy you are? Besides....Jesus doesn't have time for silly stuff like that!
Gumby
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JCanon
So what would you do Jesus......run up in front of them just before the door opens and expect someone to not think your the little nutty guy you are? Besides....Jesus doesn't have time for silly stuff like that!
Actually, I do things like that and I think I will again if the opportunity presents itself. Problem is, how do you know WHERE they will be working in the territory.
Anyway, I wouldn't make it that obvious nor would I even knock on the doors. If I saw some witnesses working a street, then I'd run ahead a few doors and stick small folded half pages in the doors. I wouldn't want them to see me. It's amazing what amount of printing you can get on a half sheet.
But I've done that before, in a mailout campaign where I wrote to every single kingdom hall in the US. Plus I personally delivered fliers to over a hundred kingdom halls in the areas where I was living! So I'm used to that campaign.
Now I could predict by the nature of the flier or letter what would happen but I actually got some feedback on what does happen. But first I'll just say when I sent the info to the congregations, it was a "copy" of a letter to the Governing Body with a "cc" to the CO of each congregation, but I sent it to the secretary or the literature servant which is usually a MS who then read it and then passed it on. Thus it sort of looked like an "informational" about some Biblical propaganda. They would read it not thinking it would ruin their day or that it was directed to them. So it's rather sneaky.
But it's no different than presenting a topic as a "question in the field" or coming out and just claiming the witnesses are wrong, which they will reject the topic before considering it if they think it's apostate stuff.
Thus my flier would be on the one simple topic that they can't get around which is Josephus' reference that the 70 years began with the LAST DEPORTATION. The witnesses quote Josephus regarding the 70 years and they believe the Babylonian records were revised since the current Babylonian period is too short. But the witnesses are 4 years off in this reference. A key point is that the Jews who ran down to Egypt were the ones who were part of the last deportation. That is NEWS to any witness who hasn't thought twice about what happened to Jeremiah and Baruch and others who we last saw down in Egypt. But Josephus includes them in the last deportation. Further, of course, the Bible agrees with this.....
But, by the time this NEW information hits them...and the question will be WHY DO JWS CLAIM TO BELIEVE THE BIBLE YET STILL PREACH FALSEHOOD? They will wonder why did the GB "miss" this key point? Plus two scriptures in Jeremiah (44:14 and 28) show that a few "remaining from the sword" who were in Egypt would return to Jerusalem.
Of course, it's a Biblical sand trap! By now it will be too late! They will have to bring this up with the elders next. And since it's just asking why are Jehovah's witnesses not teaching the truth as they claim, they will be on the defensive and won't to make a reply. But they can't! Not in this case. The Josephus reference is VERY DAMAGING!
But then, all would seem to be a simple matter of simply correcting this little "error" right? So what, the Jews' last deportation began the 70 years. No biggee. Except, if you move the date of the 70 years, you move the date for the fall of Jerusalem from 607BCE to four years earlier to 611BCE. And that's where the punchline comes in...now resolving 1914!!!
Notice I don't tell them what the actual date is in 529BCE or anything about chronology or anything else, just a simple request as to why they claim to teach the Bible truth but don't and this is just one good example of that.
But then they can't get out of it. No elder or circuit overseer will be able to say anthing other than "Jehovah will reveal it in it's own time....this is still the true religion..." and all that. But the witnesses won't be able to come up with answer for the people who have the flier. So I definitely have the goods.
But then, it's almost too cruel. Where will they go if their little faith is destroyed so totally and what will it gain. Will they then search and find the truth and find the true Messiah? It's too late for that. For a few it might lead to something but for many others, it's just another blow like 1975. I could destroy their faith, but what am I offering in return?
So that's the situation. Lazarus (Jesus) is in the position to torment the Rich Man (GB) with his knowledge. But there is a "chasm" between the two groups -- those in the secret world of the Messiah and the public world of the witnesses (i.e. the "five brothers") and though the GB/Rich Man at one point gives in and requests for Lazarus to at least preach to the five brothers, he is not permitted because the Father says he would not be believed, since they rejected the Bible, they would reject the Christ as well.
So that's it. The general position is that of the "wise virgins" and the "foolish virgins". At one point the foolish virgins ask for some of the extra oil, but it is not given to them....they need all their oil. So the JIOR doesn't really get into a campaign of trying to convert the foolish virgins who do get the knowledge but they arrive too late. So maybe, I suppose, if this was just a CONDEMNATORY type flier that simply exposed the GB as liars and not being guided by holy spirit I would do it. But that would be the extent of it. Hmmmm, maybe that will happen.
MY EXPERIENCE: Anyway, didn't meant to ramble. But when I was handing out fliers to all the kingdom halls in the area, hoping it would stir up some things, I actually HEARD about the effect it had from my parents who were going to the local congregation. I left one of my fliers at the back door and apparently the elders did get ahold of it and they discussed what was in it! So it does work! The J-Dubs usually are good about not reading the stuff, things they wouldn't understand anyway, but the elders like picking it apart and discussing what is wrong with it, which WORKS 99% of the time with most apostate drivel...but in this case it would only pose questions for them. Obviously, therefore, the TARGET is the ELDER-LEVEL witness...those qualified and responsible for teaching and defending.
But you know, the Society knows about me and all this. One time I make a silly "mistake" in one of my "attacks" on them and they wrote me right back and pointed out my error. The other times I never hear from them.
Anyway, the 70 years beginning at the last deporation is probably the only topic you can easily disprove without lots of words and discussion. It's just direct and final. That would be my next campaign.
OH GUESS WHAT? I just had a great idea!!! I won't even MENTION witnesses in the flier at all! If it looks like an anti-witness compaign letter then it will be treated as "apostate" literature. If it's just a Bible topic informational, like BIBLE TRIVIA, it will work even better! That way I can even give it to witnesses!!!! But who but Jehovah's witnesses care about the 70 years? Oh that's a great idea!!! I'm defintely going to do that!!!
It will be so neat!!! It will be like on a half sheet of paper to save money and it will be numbered like "BIBLE TRIVIA QUESTION #36" or something. Or maybe even a higher number like "#72". That way it will look like this is just one in a series of little Bible Trivia questions that some nice Bible person is handing out to help "Bible Education". That way the witnesses, who think they know so much, will accept it and read it. It will say "READ YOUR BIBLE DAILY" too. And I'l put "Nondemoninational" on it!!! HAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
Oh, it's soooo diabolical!!!! Once any witness finds out the Bible dates the 70 years 4 years after they do, then 1914 is lost and it cant' be recovered!!! The whole congregation will be deep into talking about it before they figure out it's clever "apostate" propaganda aimed at them!!!
I'm feeling guilty about it already!!! So I guess I'm going to do it! But so what? I'm giving out TRUTH, right? I can't help it if the witnesses are wrong.
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THE REAL CAMPAIGN: But perhaps the REAL CAMPAIGN that I probably will get into is attacking the British Museum's support for Assyriologists Sachs and Hunger for lying int he VAT4956. Now that's even HOTTER!!! I've got the essentials now. Hershel Shanks who publishes "Biblical Archaeology Review" has been avoiding me like crazy, but you can't avoid a "scandal" or an accusation of academic fraud or deception. It has to be answered and corrected. But it opens up the whole can of worms as far as the double dating int he VAT4956 to 511BCE. Once it is clear that that is even a REMOTE possibility the consideration that the 568BCE dating is fake will be challenged and the Biblical challenge is over since the text and Josephus both agree as far as the relative chronology. If you catch somebody in academic fraud then you can contact the newspapers, the press, everybody involved and COMPLAIN and they have to listen. Of course, the purpose is not to indict Hunger (Sachs is dead) but to indict the British Museum regarding maintaining outdated research for the astronomical texts. Once the light is begun to be shed on the astronomical texts, they will see that both the VAT4956 and the SK400 betray the revised chronology totally.
The EDGE I'll have then, of course, is if they don't conform to be able to claim they are fakes, propagandists and anti-Biblicalists who are also INCOMPETENT and out-of-date. Not what "Biblical Archaeology" wants to have to deal with. But there's no choice now. This is PURELY academic!
So that's in the background right now. Last I heard from the British Museum was that "He who writes no books, makes no errors". In other words, they acknowledged the "error" but didn't bother correcting it.
Anyway, the chronological and astronomical data was unwieldy before and still being processed, but I can condense it now and become a "critic" and demand some answers. If the British Museum really wants to get into it I'm thinking of asking them for a small grant to publish my astronomical research "theories", etc. which would be fun.
ANYWAY........Jeez, can't I stop!!!???? You can see I'm excited and propaganda campaigns using handouts is nothing new to me! Thanks for the suggestion!!!! It can be diabolically FUN if you have the truth and the "goods" and can predict the non-alternative outcome.
So we'll see. I'll let you know if I have any fun experiences. But I can tell already in my bones I'm going to do that "70 years Bible Trivia" flier, just to have it and give it away on the corners every week.
ANOTHER SECRET: I'll tell you this in "confidence". Sometimes when I was handing out fliers to all the kingdom halls in certain areas, there was a meeting going on!! So what I'd do was pretend I was from another congregation and had forgotten to turn in my time and I'd put the fliers in the box for the time sheets!!! Say hello to some of the brothers and leave! Otherwise, I'd have to leave it in the door or throw it into the yard if there was a gate around the hall. (I'll terrible, aren't I?!!!!)
See ya later!!!
JCanon
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Dawn
Problem is, how do you know WHERE they will be working in the territory.
Follow them from their Saturday morning meeting place - the Kingdom Hall