I've been reading in this forum that Charles T. was a Mason up until his death, and that he was buried as a mummy. I also heard that the guy who wrote the New World Translation was in court at one point, and was proved a fraud because he couldn't read Greek, much less transalate it. Does anyone have any proof of all this?
Was Charles T. Russell A Mason And Believer In The Occult?
by Latin assassin from Manhattan 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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mouthy
I believe it is in error to say he was a Mason...Lori Mcgregor looked into this & it was not true-He did have the symbol I understand as he was interested in it. I know that is true that I believe it was Franz( dont quote me not sure ) who was in court & couldnt interpret the Greeek right. I have that info somewhere in my files.But I am swamped with info,. & I cant locate it at the moment But I know some one else will give you a correct answer.... O.K. Guys Let him have it!!!!
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AlanF
: I've been reading in this forum that Charles T. was a Mason up until his death,
Russell was not a Mason. This claim has been made by a number of people, based almost entirely on circumstantial evidence. Such evidence includes Russell's use of Masonic symbols on some of his books and other literature. But the same symbols were and are used on all sorts of things that have nothing to do with the Masons. For example, the U.S. dollar bill has a 'Masonic' pyramid, including the all-seeing eye on top, on the green side. Some time around 1905, Russell gave a speech to a group of Masons in which he said something like, "I am a Mason..." But the context of his speech shows that he was speaking in a very general sense, i.e., "if Masons stand for good, biblical morals, then I am a Mason." I'm sure you get the drift.
: and that he was buried as a mummy.
I believe his body was prepared in the normal way, which would include embalming. If embalming someone makes him a mummy, then there are a lot of mummies buried out there.
: I also heard that the guy who wrote the New World Translation was in court at one point, and was proved a fraud because he couldn't read Greek, much less transalate it. Does anyone have any proof of all this?
What actually happened was this? The main translator was Fred Franz, who was the WTS vice president from about 1942 to 1977. Franz was self-taught in Hebrew and mostly self-taught in Greek. How competent he was compared to normal scholars is not clear, since even some of his closest associates never knew, and certainly were not competent to judge. What is clear is that, whatever his abilities, Franz knew enough Hebrew and Greek to produce a workable bible translation, probably with a great deal of help from lexicons, and possibly with advice from a tiny number of outside scholars. The incident in question occured in the Douglas Walsh trial in 1954 in a British Court. Franz was asked by the cross examiner to translate an English passage into Hebrew, something that is difficult even for most real scholars since they usually are translating the other way. He said that he wouldn't attempt to do that, probably because he knew he'd have trouble, just as many scholars would.
I poked around on google to get more information on this, and found a few comments from a former JW defender name Greg Stafford:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-hebrew/2001-June/010916.html
The trial you mentioned was held to establish whether or not Jehovah's
Witnesses should be recognized as a legal religious organization in Scotland.
Here is the salient portion of Franz' testimony under cross-examination:
Cross: "You, yourself, read and speak Hebrew, do you?"
Franz: "I do not speak Hebrew."
Cross: "You do not?"
Franz: "No."
Cross: "Can you, yourself, translate that into Hebrew?"
Franz: "Which?"
Cross: "That fourth verse of the Second Chapter of Genesis?"
Franz: "You mean here?"
Cross: "Yes."
Franz: "No. I won't attempt to do that."
Let us assume for the moment that Franz could not speak or read Hebrew. How
in the world does this prove that he could not translate Greek? Franz studied
Greek for two years at the University of Cincinnati and continued his study
of the language after he decided to become a full-time minister. Also, how
does his testimony imply that the other Committee members (assuming that
Franz was a member of the Committee) were unable to translate Hebrew or
Greek? Of course, it does not.
Getting back to the cross-examination of F. W. Franz, note his complete
answer to the final question of the cross-examiner. To the question, "Can you
translate that [Genesis 2:4] into Hebrew?" He responds with, "No. I won't
attempt to do that." May I point out that Franz did not say that he COULD
NOT translate the English of Genesis 2:4 (NWT) into Hebrew, but that he WOULD
NOT attempt to do so. Why would he refuse to do so? Perhaps the answer to
this question will be better understood after we consider the following
comments from William Sanford LaSor:
QUOTE
All learning is in context. The context, however, is not artificial, composed
perchance by one who does not use the language naturally, but rather it is
the actual language of those who used it as their mother-tongue. For this
reason, I refuse to ask the students to compose sentences in Hebrew. To do so
is to impress errors on the student's mind. And, frankly, most of us who
teach Biblical Hebrew do not have sufficient fluency in the language to speak
or write in it. (William Sanford LaSor, Handbook of Biblical Hebrew, vol. 1
[Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1978], page 3.)
END QUOTE
Now, considering Franz' earlier testimony, that he had made himself familiar
with Hebrew, and that he could read and follow the Bible in Hebrew, and his
admission that he could not SPEAK Hebrew, we can certainly understand Franz'
refusal to translate Genesis 2:4 from English INTO Hebrew (not Hebrew into
English). For, as LaSor points out, even most teachers of Biblical Hebrew "do
not have sufficient fluency in the language to speak or write in it." So your
assessment of Franz' testimony is superficial, inaccurate, and misleading.
Again, Franz was NOT ASKED TO TRANSLATE HEBREW INTO ENGLISH, BUT ENGLISH
**INTO HEBREW**.Fred Franz was the only NWT translator who had enough knowledge to make the NWT. The other NWT Committee members -- Karl Klein, Albert Schroeder, Nathan Knorr, George Gangas, and the few others I can't remember -- had no knowledge of Hebrew at all, and precious little of Greek. For people who claim that none of the NWT Committee members had enough knowledge to produce the NWT, ask yourself: How did the Watchtower manage to create a bible translation uniquely suited for its existing doctrine?
AlanF
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kgfreeperson
Actually, I thought they made those parts up out of whole cloth and then persuaded the faithful that it was the other translations that were wrong. Glad to be straightened out.
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mizpah
AlanF:
Thanks for the good information. I think some of these things get distorted in the telling. Russell supported the Zionism movement. But he was not a Zionist. Russell's grave has a pyramid memorial stone. But he was not "mummified." He promulgated the popular theory of his day that the Great Pyramid was the "stone in Egypt" of Biblical prophecy. But I don't think he was a "believer in the occult."
Russell made many mistakes in his life time. But I don't think he was any better or worse than many other religious leaders before or since. Critics like to pick up on these mistakes and blow them out of proportion.
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JCanon
This is an interesting topic, but you must realize that the Masons didn't die out when Russell died, they are still alot of them alive and well and claiming Russell was not a Mason.
For instance, AF. He would have us to believe that Russell included the winged disk on the cover of the publications of a religious magazine and though acutely familiar with Masons, didn't know what that symbol represented when every Freemason would? Same goes with the crown and cross on the Watchtower!
Then after his death he Watchtower Society buries him under a pyramid with a seeing eye, the SAME symbol on the dollar bill which AF implies is just for decoration if it is not linked with Freemasonry?
Pa-leeeze!. AF is a brilliant man and thus would not be so naieve as to believe every single thing on anything like a dollar bill would have critical significance. The significance to the emblem is an attestation to the money and power Freemasons have, and thus, the seeing eye and the pyramid are definitely freemasonry symbolisms also.
BUT.......
There is a technicality here. Freemasons are just a branch of many occult groups that know and are aware of the "mysteries". These groups operate as "secret societies" and have a common origin but may not necessarily be all the same organization.
Biblically speaking, the "weeds" are a symbol of a form of Freemasony connected with the "Eleusinian" mysteries since it was believed that a fungus infecting wheat caused a psychedelic hallucination that allowed the mysteries to evolve, etc. Thus the seeding of God's organization with "weeds" in the illustration of the wheat asnd weeds could represent it's being infiltrated by a form of the mysteries "secret societies", related to Freemasons but not directly.
What my take on it is, and based upon a quote (which I don't have now) that Russell made is that he spoke of these "secret societies" and basically was inviting them into the Watchtower Organization as a safe place to operate. That explains his putting the "cultic" symbolims of the the cross and crown from the Knights of Templar and the winged disc of Osiris more associated with "British Israelism" than Freemasonry.
So was Russell a "Freemason"? Maybe not technically. Was he into secret societies and did he create a special one among the witnesses. YES!
A casual comparison of what the witness occult secret society is into would be the "Tower Goddess" the "Goddess of Fortresses". Some of their understanding and beliefs about the mysteries would be found in a book they used to publish by Alexander Hyslop called "The Two Babylons".
At any rate, those into the mysteries would recognize these mystic symbolisms so they are not "innocent" as AF would have us all believe? What, Russell couldn't find any original symboms or anything else, even like a simple cross of Christendom he had to use a pagan symbol on Christian literature. C'mon A.F. Even you don't believe that. SOMETHING is wrong here. Even if it is not specifically the current Chapter of Freemasonry.
One interesting thing you can look into that should more than alert you to the mystical nature of this, is the occult "subliminal art" that the WTS graduated to after the Cross and Crown were removed and the winged disc.
This relates to the abdominal "7th Volume" put out by Rutherford wherein an interpretation was made of the pagan book of "Song of Solomon" a book that pagans know clearly is pagan and relates to the Tower Goddess. Thus the symbolisms on the early Watchtower reflect the reference in Song of Solomon on how to represent this goddes in architure, particularly the breasts of the goddess being like towers. I'll look this up and then elaborate. But the "wall" and the tower are connected with the goddess and that is the symbolism used on the Watchtower cover. In addition, the older Watchtowers showed a white mountain with a stream coming from it and the waters of life and knowledge are thought to come from the breast of the goddess which is part of the mysteries of this goddes since she is the goddess of knowledge, etc.
So, while the cultic society practiced by those in the WTS might not be frank "Freemasonry" it's still a haven for those who are in the mysteries or who use the mysteries to operate their own organization. So I would call Russell a Freemason but definitely a follower of the mysteries and thus just as bad as being a Freemason. Only the WTS secret cultic society seems to be more into the "Tower Goddess" and "Goddess of Fortresses" mysteries than what the Freemasons are into.
Finally, and interestingly enough, the Freemasons and the secret societies have been connected with Jews and Hitler, of all people, started to persecute the witnesses BECAUSE of this alleged Jewish connection with the secret socities the Germans believed the Jews were involved with, i.e. their belief that the Jews were planning to undermind Aryan Western Culture and take over the world by world finance and all that. And this can't be denied now since Rutherford's own letter back to Hitler said as much, that Britian and New York were controlled by the Jewish bankers. So Rutherford definitely understood the secret societies and Freemasonry references going on and the witnesses are right in the middle of it!
So whether it's their Tower Goddess new secret cult, or Russell being buried under his mysterious circumstances with Freemasonry symbolism or the Nazis linking JWs with secret societies of the Jews...they will not be able to shake the connection, no matter how many specific "details" can be denied.
So was Rusell a "Freemason" proper? Maybe not. Was he into the occult and secret societies? Absolutely!
Look up information on the "Tower Goddess" for some interesting comparisons....
The fact that the WTS would be infiltrated by "weeds" (Freemasonry-like secret societies associated with the "mysteries") was Biblically prophesied. This strong infiltration fits the context of Revelation saying: "Get out of her MY PEOPLE"...meaning Jehovah's witnesses involved with Freemasonry were to "get out of her", suggesting that it must be quite common for them to have been involved with "Babylon the Great" which is connected with the "Illuminati" and secret socities linked with the UN.
Anyway, like I said, whenver an article like this comes up, I just laugh because I know some current Freemason will have to try to dismiss suspicion away from Russell's connection with the "Fremasons" and the occult, when it is so very apparent that he can't be disconnected if he was buried with a seeing-eye pyramid on his grave.
"Freemasons" are alive and well and particularly in these X-JW news groups.
JCanon
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JCanon
We have a little sister, and she hath no breasts: what shall we do for our sister in the day when she shall be spoken for?
Sgs 8:9 If she [be] a wall, we will build upon her a palace of silver: and if she [be] a door, we will inclose her with boards of cedar. Here in "Song of Solomon" which is pagan book that got into the canon (i.e. not cross-quoted from by the NT Bible writers...SOS, Esther and Ecclesiastes are not inspired), you see here the reference to the goddess in the form of architecture. The goddess could be represented by many things, including shapes, like the pyramid, or common objects such as a tree. But buildings are an artform and can be used as well to represent the goddess. Here her battlements on top of a wall represent her breasts. Elsewhere it says her breasts are like "towers".
Thus, we find, interestingly enough, in the "7thVolume" a whole chapter devoted to Song of Solomon, one connection by the WTS to the mysteries, but specifically the new symbolism on their own magazine where you see a wall with battlements on it! WHY? Why of all the things that the WTS could have used for it's symbolism a wall with battlements? Answer: It was in reference to this secret manifestation of the "Tower Goddess"...thus they sort of had their own secret little society going.
But the same goes for "Freemasonry" type ex-JW discussion boards. If ever anybody was into the internet it appears to be "Freemasons". Thus you don't have to worry about Russell. Remember that "seeing eye" on top of the pyramid? Well you can find the "eye of Osiris" is most anti-JW newsgroups. For instance that SEEING EYE staring at you right here at this board. Or even a less camaflauged one at "Watchtower Observer" or "Freeminds". In fact, Freeminds has LOTS of secret Freemasonry symbols right on their front page!!
So, if you're reallyl interested in the Freemasonry connection with witnesses....go to a Freemasonry sight and find out just what symbols Freemasons use and then check and see if the "chosen art" of some of the X-JW newsgroups fits ANY of the symbolisms. If it does then you should PRESUME that they are "Freemasons" or trained in Freemasonry.
But to that end, it would be important to tell them that "Babylong the Great" is represented in scripture as connected to the "mysteries" and Freemasonry and thus unless they want to "receive part of her plagues" they must GET OUT OF HER!
The presence of secret-society types in the WTS is likely the reason why many anointed ones, faithful to scripture more than the WTS leadership have had to go underground into their own "secret society".
JCanon
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JCanon
The EYE OF OSIRIS which seems to be a favorite for XJW newsgroups and discussion boards is a clear indication of the level of infiltration by "Freemasonry" or some other specialized form of secret society connected to the "mysteries" (Babylon the Great) into the witness organization.
http://books.fantasticfiction.co.uk/n12/n60040.htm?authorid=1027
Check out the above graphic of the Eye of Osiris and compare to the eye chosen by http://www.watchtower.observer.org
or maybe just http://watchtower.observer.org
Note how the lines under the eye of Osiris are duplicated by the shadows of bars on the face around the eye.
You see, in Freemasonry, which communicates via imagry and subliminal art has the opportunity to be very "clever" in this deception. This is one of the better adaptations.
Also, while one is busy listening to AF reassure us that there is "nothing here really....let's move on" when it is clear this is probably the tip of the iceberg, one might ask the authors of this webgroup why they chose the eye and why is there THREE CIRCLES next to the eye. Remember the number 3 is, triangles and pryramids are linked with Satanism and the mysteries.
So as I said, it would be strange for such a Freemasonry infiltrated subculture as the witnesses and apparently ex-witnesses, who can't discuss this openly, not to come forward to dismiss any legitimate inquiry into the connection between Russell and the secret occult socities...but that would be a dead giveaway that they themselves are a "mason" or whatever they want to call themselves technically.
Anyway, for all of you comfortably in your secret societies....Babylon the Great is soon to be destroyed so you must "get out of her, my people" if you don't want to suffer the consequences. The Bible wouldn't tell us to get out of the "mysteries" or "Freemaonsry" unless there was a relevant high percentage of participating (active participation hand) or acknowledging (mind, passive participation) witnesses or ex-witnesses.
JCanon