Jesus Had John the Baptist Killed?

StinkyPantz

In the Bible we are told that when Paul visited Ephesus and Corinth as the first missionary in the area he found already in existence a flourishing Church of John - John the Baptist - but the followers of John had not even heard of Jesus. Today the Mandaeans of modern Iran and Iraq have held John in special reverence for 2000 years calling him the "High King of Light." Jesus is referred to as a "usurper" who "perverted all the cults and turned light into darkness."

In Luke 7:18 - 23 John (who, we are told, has earlier met Jesus and fallen at his feet) sends a message to Jesus saying "Art thou he that should come or do we wait for another?" Shortly after this John is killed apparently to appease the whim of Salome.

Johannites believe that Christ and/or his followers killed John and took over the church that he had created. This belief is called the Great Heresy.

http://www.stoke5399.freeserve.co.uk/leo/speculation-heresy.htm

This is a new concept for me. It had never even crossed my mind. If you think about it though, it would be an interesting plan. John, in some people's eyes was a rival to Jesus. If he was eliminated, Jesus could more eaily take over his following.

Opinions? Arguments for or against?

Ravyn

http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/scripts/johannite.html

I think the gnostics are closer to the truth than modern xtianity.

Ravyn

Flowerpetal

Ravyn,

This is a very interesting site. I couldn't read it all there is soooo much..but I am going to get thru it.

I found this to be particularly scary, although I didn't read it all yet: http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/gnosis/golden.htm.

Flowerpetal

OOPS--I think I made a mistake in the link. Here it is again:

http://www.mystae.com/streams/scripts/egregor.html

There are layers upon layers upon layers of myths and stories on this mystae site. Very intriguing.

refiners fire

Well since the technical experts, the Biblical researchers and University professors started examining the Jesus myth Ive heard lots of variations on Jesus history:

I heard that he recovered from being crucified and went to the west, married Mary Magdalene and produced a bloodline of descendants that persists to this day.

I also heard that his mother Mary had sex with a Roman legionaire and jesus was his bastard son and Mary concocted the miracuolous birth story so dumb old Joseph would still marry her.

I heard that Jesus was a very charismatic hunchback, who was skilled in the art of mesmerism and He and Judas Iscariot planned out , to the last detail, Judas role as 'traitor' .

But I never heard one of Jesus bein a murderer before.

RunningMan

I also heard that his mother Mary had sex with a Roman legionaire and jesus was his bastard son...

Yes, I heard that too. His father's name was Naughtimus Maximus.

refiners fire

yeah. What I REALLY want to know is why these archeologists,historyphiles and vulcanologists, etc go around searching for and hypothesizing "logical" explanations for the temporary drying up of the river Jordan in 1450BC (or thereabouts) so the Israelites could cross into the promised land. I mean, is there any evidence any of it even happened? Who gives them the money to go in pursuit of evidence for such ridiculous and pointless research?

Gamaliel

SP,

Yes. I've heard of the theory before. Some have surmised a few details from the Gospel stories to make them fit this idea. There are even a few more details in Acts and Paul's letters that show that John's baptism was already known in the Roman empire just before the Christians had a chance to spread add their twist.

One theory I read is that after Jesus baptism, the Great Temptation by Satan for "all the powers of the earth" was actually an oblique reference to the fact that Jesus too could start a ministry as big as John's, but he would need John out of the way. Jesus or followers that wished for Jesus to step into the sandals of John merely leaked the political ramifications of John's teaching to Herod, who then had him arrested so he could question him.

No matter what, there is that serious Bible contradiction about how much John knew about Jesus and when he knew it. There are some less serious contradictions between the baptism scenes across the Gospels. I think the contradictions are probably the key to why the conspiracy theories started. Also the text gives some hints that Christians competed in the same circles with JBaptists for followers; direct comparisons are made between their respective ministries. Christians ultimately won. I don't think anyone has ever pointed to any credible basis for a real conspiracy, though.

Gamaliel

Jesus Had John the Baptist Killed?

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