Ok, I recently sent an e-mail about the UN-involvement thing to my bf's mother. Here's what I got back: Dear Stacy, I had heard of this accusation against Jehovah's Witnesses before and I asked one of our elders to explain this again. About 20 - 25 years ago, the Watch Tower Society obtained access to U.N. information by obtaining permission. This was non-governmental thus non-political and non compromising. What this amounted to is similar to obtaining a Library Card to access information. I own a Library Card and am thankful that I have access to much useful information. I don't agree with or support all the activities that the Library may be involved in. I especially don't like the fact that the De-Forest Library has Pagan Dragon Idols decorating it's roof. But that doesn't mean I am doing anything Biblical wrong by using the Library to access information. Due to some making false accusations, the WTBTS removed it's name form the list. These days, anyone can freely, without any sort of registration, access the same information through the internet. Anyone can write anything and set up a web page on the internet. They may believe they have all the facts but in reality are guided by blind hatred. True Christians should be Christ like, peaceable, preaching the Goodnews of God's Kingdom as the only real cure for mankind's problems. There is only one Religion that is known world wide for it's preaching activity, and that is Jehovah's Witnesses. Some so called Christians are for some reason threatened by this and attempt to stop the preaching work and sometimes use slander to accomplish this. True Christian's shouldn't mind talking about the Bible. It's not some private personal experience. We should want to be like the early Borean's mentioned in Acts 17:11 - "Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so". So l et us please, from now on, focus on what the Bible says. I no longer want to discuss false accusations from a Disfellowed or Misinformed individual. I certainly do not want my family to be mislead by non-Biblical teachings or be influenced by Un-Godly persons who's objective is to mislead rather than enlighten. Let us consider the source and adhere to what the the highest authority has to say, Jehovah God, through his Word the Bible. These accusations are designed to destroy faith and not build up faith in any way. They have nothing to offer. If I left an organization, I wouldn't spend my free time transposing negative information. I used to attend the Methodist church in which I was confirmed as a member. I never really learned anything substantial from the Bible and actually saw allot of hypocrisy. Rather than spend my time blasting the Methodist religion, I have learned to examine what the Bible says verses false religious teachings. I can see that the doctrines that many so-called Christian religions teach are not from the Bible but are man made doctrine. I can see by their fruits that they are Christians in word only. Instead of wasting my time opposing the Methodist's, as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I try to help people understand what the Bible really says. There are many persons, however, who just want to justify why they can worship God in their own way instead of coming to an accurate knowledge of how God wants them to worship Him. When I look up other So-Called Christian Religions I noticed they don't have sites from other religions putting them down. But when you look up Jehovah's Witnesses, there is only one official web site, the true source, that anyone who really wants to know what they believe should turn to. But there are numerous sources from others trying to attack the Witnesses and many of these stem from Disfellowshipped, Apostate individuals. The Bible foretold that an Evil Slave class would persecute the faithful and discreet slave class at Matt 24:45 - 51. I would be happy to discuss this subject in greater detail. For now, I hope we can get together again to further our discussions. I am available Friday, Saturday, & Sunday evening. What I want is help from all y'all. So please, guys, load me up with fuel!
AUGH!!!!!!!! She is SO Brainwashed!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by BornAgainGirl! 9 Replies latest jw friends
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Gadget
(((Bornagaingirl)))
I've had a similar argument with my dad. Is she on the internet? Does she download information on things? My dad downloaded a lot of informnation on a disease he's got. I asked him why, because according to the society averything you read on the internet is lies.....
And the UN thing. Why is that different to the brothers in Malawi not being able to buy a political card? They still wouldn't agree with the principles, but it would stop them being percecuted and killed. That would be a lot more important to me than being able to access a library.
Gadget
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Elsewhere
Send these to her...
The first has the WTS denying that the original documents signed conflict with their Christian beliefs, but then saying they had to discontinue association because the UN changed the requirements.
The Second letter is from the UN which states that the requirements have never changed. So what we have here is a situation where someone is lying... either the WTS or the UN. The UN can provide copies of the original signed documents, whose requirements are identical to the current requirements. Hmmmmmm
If she says that these documents are fake, then tell her that she is more than welcome to write to the UN. If she says that the UN is evil and lies... then than means that the WTS has admitted to associating itself with the Wild Beast.
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willyloman
Let's take mom's letter one paragraph at a time: I had heard of this accusation against Jehovah's Witnesses before and I asked one of our elders to explain this again. About 20 - 25 years ago, the Watch Tower Society obtained access to U.N. information by obtaining permission. This was non-governmental thus non-political and non compromising. What this amounted to is similar to obtaining a Library Card to access information. I own a Library Card and am thankful that I have access to much useful information. I don't agree with or support all the activities that the Library may be involved in. I especially don't like the fact that the De-Forest Library has Pagan Dragon Idols decorating it's roof. But that doesn't mean I am doing anything Biblical wrong by using the Library to access information. Due to some making false accusations, the WTBTS removed it's name form the list. These days, anyone can freely, without any sort of registration, access the same information through the internet. Just to get the facts on the table, mom, it wasn't 20-25 years ago. There is a record of the application at the UN and it shows the application was made in 1991 and granted in 1992, which acceptance required agreement with specific guidelines including support of UN programs and goals and periodic submission of printed materials indicative of such support. [Perhaps someone would be kind enough to insert here the date of that infamous Awake that glorifies UN programs and goals; the one that was submitted to the UN to show the WTS was holding up its end of the bargain]. Anyone can write anything and set up a web page on the internet. They may believe they have all the facts but in reality are guided by blind hatred. True Christians should be Christ like, peaceable, preaching the Goodnews of God's Kingdom as the only real cure for mankind's problems. There is only one Religion that is known world wide for it's preaching activity, and that is Jehovah's Witnesses. Some so called Christians are for some reason threatened by this and attempt to stop the preaching work and sometimes use slander to accomplish this. True Christian's shouldn't mind talking about the Bible. It's not some private personal experience. We should want to be like the early Borean's mentioned in Acts 17:11 - "Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so". How ironic you should supply just the right scripture for our discussion. The Boreans would be DF'd today if they dared carefully examine the WT's teachings on scripture to see whether these things were really so. As for your contention that "only one religion is known worldwide for its preaching activity," you need to get out more. I can assure you that out here in the real world, that is the LAST thing JWs are known for. If your standard is the criterion, the preaching activity has been a complete failure. So l et us please, from now on, focus on what the Bible says. I no longer want to discuss false accusations from a Disfellowed or Misinformed individual. I certainly do not want my family to be mislead by non-Biblical teachings or be influenced by Un-Godly persons who's objective is to mislead rather than enlighten. Let us consider the source and adhere to what the the highest authority has to say, Jehovah God, through his Word the Bible. These accusations are designed to destroy faith and not build up faith in any way. They have nothing to offer. Exactly! I don't ant to be mislead by non-Biblical teachings, either, nor do I wish to go on being influenced by un-Godly persons whos objective is to mislead rather than enlighten. If I left an organization, I wouldn't spend my free time transposing negative information. I used to attend the Methodist church in which I was confirmed as a member. I never really learned anything substantial from the Bible and actually saw allot of hypocrisy. Rather than spend my time blasting the Methodist religion, I have learned to examine what the Bible says verses false religious teachings. I can see that the doctrines that many so-called Christian religions teach are not from the Bible but are man made doctrine. I can see by their fruits that they are Christians in word only. Instead of wasting my time opposing the Methodist's, as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I try to help people understand what the Bible really says. There are many persons, however, who just want to justify why they can worship God in their own way instead of coming to an accurate knowledge of how God wants them to worship Him. When someone leaves the Methodist church, or almost any other, they can walk across the street and join the Baptist church; that's their right. Freedom of religion is guaranteed by law. The reason ex-Methodists don't form support groups is that they weren't slaves to a cult and don't need a long period of rehabilitation and counseling to screw their heads back on straight; they haven't been indoctrinated. As for your efforts to try to help people understand what the Bible says, you are delusional; your time spent trying to teach people what the WT says the Bible says, preaching a doctrine most rational people on the planet have dismissed as pure fantasy. When I look up other So-Called Christian Religions I noticed they don't have sites from other religions putting them down. But when you look up Jehovah's Witnesses, there is only one official web site, the true source, that anyone who really wants to know what they believe should turn to. But there are numerous sources from others trying to attack the Witnesses and many of these stem from Disfellowshipped, Apostate individuals. The Bible foretold that an Evil Slave class would persecute the faithful and discreet slave class at Matt 24:45 - 51. I would be happy to discuss this subject in greater detail. Isn't that an interesting point, that no other religions have an guerilla movement and an active underground. These are usually only associated with tyrannical rulers and despotic governments. Hello? Are you listening to yourself? For now, I hope we can get together again to further our discussions. I am available Friday, Saturday, & Sunday evening. It will take at least that long to show you everything there is to see, mom. Bring your lunch.
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drwtsn32
BAG: I think it's pointless to argue with some (most?) JWs...
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Gopher
I agree with Dr. Watson. It sounds like you're trying the equivalent of reasoning with a brick wall.
Her closing invitation "I hope we can get together to further our discussions" -- yeah right, on HER terms. That's a discussion, JW style. They talk, you do the listening.
I cannot disagree with your topic heading stating that she is so brainwashed. She will never listen unless she decides to do so. You can present all the empirical evidence from A to Z, and to her you're just being an "opponent of truth".
Sigh. Reality just isn't for everyone.
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berylblue
Welcome, BornAgainGirl. Glad you're here.
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jschwehm
"If I left an organization, I wouldn't spend my free time transposing negative information. I used to attend the Methodist church in which I was confirmed as a member. I never really learned anything substantial from the Bible and actually saw allot of hypocrisy. Rather than spend my time blasting the Methodist religion, I have learned to examine what the Bible says verses false religious teachings. I can see that the doctrines that many so-called Christian religions teach are not from the Bible but are man made doctrine."
Hmmmmmm. If what this JW says above is true, how does he explain all of the vitriolic comments the JWs have made about all of "Christendom" in their literature? The fact of the matter is that this JW is right he does not only bash the Methodists he bashes every other religion except his own.
Secondly, most of the time a person who is wholly devoted to the cult will only accept the cult's explanation on controversial matters pretty much no matter what you say to them. This person will not believe what you say until he/she sees deception in the cult leaders for himself. I remember when I used to show things to my JW mother when I was first leaving. The mental gymnastics that they would go through to defend the cult was amazing. Of course, my mother was just not ready for the info and nothing I said or showed her would change her mind.
Thirdly, this person wants to discuss only the Bible with you. That can be a way to break the mind control. You might ask this person why they accept the Bible as God's Word. Ask this individual if they are aware of who compiled the books of the New Testament (it was the Roman Catholic Church around 400 years after Christ). This actually puts the JWs in some what of a bind that a bunch of apostate bishops decided what books were inspired by God.
In any case, it is always interesting to discuss these issues with the JWs.
Jeff S.
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undercover
So l et us please, from now on, focus on what the Bible says. I no longer want to discuss false accusations from a Disfellowed or Misinformed individual. I certainly do not want my family to be mislead by non-Biblical teachings or be influenced by Un-Godly persons who's objective is to mislead rather than enlighten. Let us consider the source and adhere to what the the highest authority has to say, Jehovah God, through his Word the Bible. These accusations are designed to destroy faith and not build up faith in any way. They have nothing to offer.
Since most JWs won't(or can't) think for themselves on certain issues, like the UN scandal or the child abuse situations, take her up on her offer. Focus on what the Bible says vesus what JWs teach. There is enough doctrinal flip-flopping and mistakes to keep both of you busy arguing, er, debating the issues for quite sometime.
The few discussions that I have had, I stay away from the UN scandal and like things. It becomes a "he said, she said" type thing. The thing is, even if you show them the letters from both the WTS and the UN, they'll claim they're faked and you can't really prove they aren't unless you have originals. They'll claim that it's an apostate conspiracy against the WTS. So I don't bother with that stuff. I stick with doctrinal issues such as proving 1914 as the date Jesus returned. Prove 1919 and 1935. What happened to the belief that Armageddon would come before the generation of 1914 would die? What about all the predictions that were made that didn't come true? What about what Galations teaches about Christian freedom versus "traditions of men" and Pharisaical(?) rulings from the WTS? These are Bible issues. Make her prove her case with the Bible and the Bible only.
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BornAgainGirl!
Thanks to all of you guys for your help!
And thanks for the welcome!