Refuting Faithful Slave Myth Accusations.

by integ 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  integ

  Again, playing devils' advocate here. I brought up to a staunch witness relative some reasons the annointed remnant, or however she wishes to regard them, are not the Faithful and Discreet Slave mentioned in Matthew. I brought up the fact that practically all the core doctrines that the witnesses were teaching in 1919 when the "Master arrived and chose the Watchtower as His instrument" would be considered as apostasy today, by the Witnesses. I also brought out the false Watchtower chronology, and how NOBODY in the scientifc community of any legitimacy supports the Society on this. I also showed how the Watchtower has flip-flopped so many times as regards the "slave", and who they are. I also mentioned that Bible scholars generally agree that Jesus was merely relating a parable when speaking of this slave, not referring to the so called "annointed remnant" as represented by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. All this, and what do I get back in response?

  1) As to changes in doctrine since the slave was appointed in 1919..---"The light keeps getting brighter".

  2) As to false chronology...----"I'll trust Jehovah's organization over worldly scientists any day".

  3) As to doctrinal flip flops (available at Dollar General Store for only $1.99 a pair) ----"Light getting brighter".

  4) As to it being merely a parable and NOT a prophecy...----"The Bible Scholars who say that don't have Jehovahs' spirit, so they are wrong".

  5) As to why Jesus decided on the Watchtower society to dispense all this food and take care of His belongings instead of any other churches....---"The Society at that time may have had to "adjust" their thinking on matters later on, but Jesus saw their hearts and chose them because they (witnesses) were the 'closest' to the truth at that time, and we know Jesus chose them because no other religion is preaching the good news of the kingdom today except for Jehovah's Witnesses".

  How could I be so silly not to see such sound reasoning, and to exhibit such ridiculous and unfounded doubts in Jehovah's organization. Please pray for me.

  Integ.
• 

  mizpah

  You've just demonstrated a "lesson in futility." Unless a person has personal doubts and questions about the Watchtower Society, there can be no reasoning. These are the conditioned answers that Jehovah's Witnesses have used for a number of years now. Since they equate the organization with God, they feel to question or doubt it is to question and doubt God.

  When I confronted the elders about the parable of the "faithful and discreet slave" of Matthew 24:45, I asked them about the parallel account in Luke 12. ("faithful stewart") and asked them who was pictured by the one "deserving punishment" who is "beaten with few blows." Whereas Matthew descibes only two types, faithful and unfaithful, Luke adds a third type who receives a lesser form of judgment. Of course, the elders were at a loss to identify what "class" this would represent.
• 

  refiners fire

  Hit her with the pyramid and the star Alcyone. Ive seen dubs go white with shock seeing that. Ask her why, after 30 years as a dub she never knew that information before.
• 

  greven

  "I'll trust Jehovah's organization over worldly scientists any day".

  It's always hard to reason with a witness that has a closed mind. Reasoning with a brickwall often yields better results. They remind me of the dark knight of monty python's quest for the holy grail. *arm gets chopped off* 'It's just a flesh wound!'

  As to the above comment maybe you can show her some of the medical stuff the society preached.

  I'm thinking about the hart being the seat of feelings (literally), the ban on vacinations as forbidden by God's law and organ transplants being cannibalism. Ask her if she would trust a doctor that said things like that in the past to give her a vital operation. (if you need quotes I can send them to you)

  Don't get your hopes up though.

  Greven
• 

  xjw_b12

  And just who is the Governing Body, and when were they apointed, and by whom?

  See this excellant thread by JC

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/59134/883944/post.ashx#883944
• 

  Room 215

  This 1919 myth is very pervasive, mainly because current JWs have little to no knowledge of the Society's history, either because of lack of access to publications of the period or interest in the subject. Without dredging up the details, which are amply available online to anyone with the least bit of curiosity, even a cursory glance at the contents of ``The Finished Mystery" (1917) would have a dubbie's head spinning; Jehovah's name was largely absent from their publications until 1931, they persisted with mystical symbols and the cross and the celebration of Christmas until the late twenties, not to mention the expectation of the End in 1925, leading to a New World Theocracy headquarterd in Jerusalem, administered by ``Ancient Worthies" amidst a Holy Land of repatriated, restored, reconciled Jews..
• 

  Gozz

  Hit her with the pyramid and the star Alcyone. Ive seen dubs go white with shock seeing that. Ask her why, after 30 years as a dub she never knew that information before.

  Yeah rf: an elder (of some 18 yrs) said: "It's a lie! I've seen apostates printing their own old Watchtowers and books and saying Society did it". I had a small heart attack.
• 

  robhic

  I found this somewhere and, unfortunately, don't remember who wrote it or where I found it so I can't attribute it properly. I found it interesting and a bit thought-provoking. Hopefully it will be an interesting read.

  Robert

  "Then Peter said, "Lord, are you saying this parable to us only, or also to all?" And Jesus said, "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master set down over his household to give them their food in due season?" (Luke 12:41, 42; Matthew 24:45)
  
  All Jesus did was ask a question. Who really is...? Then, Jesus ANSWERS that question.
  
  "Happy is that slave when his master UPON ARRIVING finds him doing so. Amen I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings." (Matthew 24:46, 47; Luke 12:43, 44)
  
  Has the Master arrived yet? (Matthew 24:30; 1 Corinthians 11:26) The 'faithful and discreet servant' has not and WILL NOT be 'identified' until the Master arrives. Why do we have to wait until the Master arrives? Jesus answers that too.
  
  "But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart 'My master is delaying' and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the drunkards; the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and at an hour that he does not know, and will cut him in two and will assign him with the hypocrites. There is where the weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be." (Matthew 24:48-51; Luke 12:45, 46)
  
  Jesus said the faithful slave could become wicked at ANYTIME. He doesn't say out in the open, but he says in his HEART 'My master is delaying.' No one can really know he is a wicked slave until the Master comes. Hence, if the slave is faithful even until the master returns (whenever he returns), he really is faithful. So no one will know who the faithful slave is (if there even is one) until the master arrives.
  
  Further... They tell you that the faithful and discreet slave is the "mouthpiece" of God on earth. Is this true?
  
  "God, who long ago on many occasions and in many ways spoke to our fathers by the mouth of the prophets has at the end of these days spoken to us by the mouth of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the system of things." (Hebrews 1:1, 2)
  
  God in the past spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets, not an organization. The prophets on earth served as his mouthpiece to his people. In these last days, God speaks to us by the mouth of a Son. So the Son is God's "mouthpiece" today. How does the Son speak to us?
  
  "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me." (John 10:27)
  
  "I have other sheep that are not of this fold, those also I must bring in, and they will LISTEN TO MY VOICE, and they shall become one flock with one shepherd." (John 10:16)
  
  From where do they listen to his voice? Is it through an organization? From the Bible? The scriptures say:
  
  "See that you do not beg off from him who is speaking. For if they did not escape who begged off from him who gave divine warning upon the earth, much more so we if we beg off from him who speaks FROM THE HEAVENS." (Hebrews 12:25).
  
  So God speaks to us today by the mouth of his Son not through an organization, nor through the Bible... but directly "from the heavens."
• 

  hooberus

  While we are on the subject of the FDS. A key Watchtower doctrine is that Jesus found and appointed a Faithful and Discreet Slave Class in the year 1919.

  A simple way to disprove the 1914, 1919 FDS doctrine is to simply show the 1919 Topical Index to the Watchtower Reprints. Under the "That" heading
  

  "That Servant: An Individual, not a class"

  Since the index summarizes the WT teachings up to July 1919 there was no FDS class for Jesus to appoint! I have a copy of the old index page which is probably not available in most Kingdom Hall libraries if you like I could mail it to you. I have never been a JW so I am not apostate.

  The standard reply to such remarks is that there has been numerous helpings of New Light since 1919! If your points are not the latest WBTS thinking they are not considered as valid. This is how I would respond to the "new light" argument.

  "Yes, Mr. Witness I know that the FDS teaching was changed in February 1927 to the current one that the FDS is a "class." However this is not the issue that concerns me. The main thing that concerns me is that the Watchtower claims that there was a slave class in the year 1919 when there wasn't one. In order for Watchtower history to be correct Jesus had to appoint a slave class in the year 1919. The historical facts show that one did not exist, hense the Watchtower has lied about their history."

  Revelation 14:5 says that the remnant will tell no lie, hense the Watchtower leaders cannot be the real remnant.

  Here is another way to respond to the "new light" argument.

  "Mr. Witness the Watchtower claims that the new light is progressive, right? . In fact the Watchtower first taught that the FDS was a "class", then the Watchtower claimed to have new understanding or new light that the FDS was an "individual not a class." So the idea that the FDS is"not a class" was the "new light". Then later the Watchtower returned to the "old light" and once again taught that the FDS was a "class."

  Summary of Watchtower FDS teaching
  

  • 1879 to 1896 "A class"
  • 1896 to 1927 "An individual, not a class"
  • 1927 to pres. "A class"

  Much of the above comes from the book "Who is the Faithful and Wise Servant" by Duane Magnai, available from Witness Inc. http://www.witnessinc.com