Men vs. Women... again.

by Vita Nuova 6 Replies latest jw friends

  • Vita Nuova
    Vita Nuova

    Actually, the title of the thread is misleading, but I'm assuming it will draw the same posters who commented on a similar thread previously posted this month. In that thread, which belonged to Minimus, I posed the provocative question, the essence of which was whether women could ever achieve in any major field of the arts and sciences the precedents set by the greatest of men. By the responses, it seemed a lot of women thought I came off as a chauvinist. The truth is I was simply unconvinced either way. I am quite aware of the historical oppression and undervaluation of women but I have not really discovered any female figure in modern times that has equalled, say, those which I proffered as among the most exemplary men of history: Einstein, Shakespeare, or Michelangelo. Of course, neither has any modern male figure equalled them. So I suppose to fairly compare the sexes on this matter the contest would have to be staged on such a playing field as the present day affords. Yet this itself is contentious and any evaluation would be dubious, being without the objective benefit of that historical viewpoint by which we have been able to evaluate the long-standing worth of any timeless genius.

    But it occurred to me today that all the possible answers I had envisioned to my question were of a vertical thinking that is essentially unsatisfactory. Either you can say 1) men are greater 2) women are greater or 3) men and women are equal. Empirically speaking, the first has more to support it than the second, yet remains unsettling; and the third remains unconvincing when one considers the intrinsic and dramatic differences between the sexes. The answer is something which I've heard a million trillion times before, though it never stuck. It hit me today and it is so obvious I'm sure every person person wielding common sense without the astigma of an agenda will say to me: Duh! The answer is that men and women are far from equal, rather they are so intrinsically different as to be considered different species. One provides what the other does not and vice-versa. The problems with each are related to the situations, roles, and circumstances. Men exhibit effortlessness in some roles where women must exert themselves. Women are preternaturally disposed to other roles where men are generally oafish. Exceptions arise, of course. And then the private issue is that of preference, i.e. "what do you prefer at times?" What I am NOT saying, in regards to the above example is that men are better suited to intellectual pursuits than women. I am asserting that the achievements of each are to be valued primarily within their gender categories and not against the opposite. When one does attempt to estimate the worth of one gender in comparison to the other in any category, then one will find oneself comparing apples and oranges. So which do you prefer, orange juice or apple juice? There are values distinct to both. Men and women are not equal, then, they are complementary. Equality is a loaded term, connoting all the wrong things.

  • Soledad
    Soledad

    and to prove how different we are, just look at how long it took you to reach a realization that women have known for eons .

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    I work with men and women. They've been my leaders and my peers. And frankly I deal with them and react to them in quite the same way. I don't think "wow, that was impressive for a (name-the-gender)".

    I would prefer to think that men and women, given the same chance, have roughly the same possibility of making major contributions to humanity. Think of Madame Curie who discovered radium, and think about women astronauts of the late 20th century, just to name some who were give chances to succeed and exceeded expectations.

    I'd rather think in terms of humanity as a whole, and divide them into people who are driven to succeed, and people who are not. Those two categories you'll find in great abundance, regardless of gender.

  • Vita Nuova
    Vita Nuova
    I would prefer to think that men and women, given the same chance, have roughly the same possibility of making major contributions to humanity.

    Gopher, I think you missed the point, but I don't blame you, the initial thread is rather convoluted. I agree that each has the same possibility for attaining greatness, but it seems obvious that men and women have an inclination unique to each that distinguishes their contributions, whether it remains unspoken or not. And as I mentioned somewhere in that verbose post, exceptions abound. As for how to apply the conclusion that men and women are uniquely different, it doesn't seem to be of utmost importance, I admit.

    I'd rather think in terms of humanity as a whole, and divide them into people who are driven to succeed, and people who are not.

    Indeed, their complementary uniquenesss make them co-operators in the universal enterprise of humanity, so long as they seek to cooperate.

  • franklin J
    franklin J

    Interesting thesis for an argument.....

    It has always been my opinion that my wife is smarter than me.

    frank

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Men and Women are far more alike than different.

    Of course that fact doesn't sell books or help with either gender's ego problems when they feel rejected (or for that matter, accepted).

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    Ok, let me tell you a story !

    I?ve worked with one of our ?greatest French journalist? LOL LOL LOL in the politic field for a TV. Because of my position, when people had a project or an issue they were coming to me ? So

    One day a gorgeous girl that he had hired for one of his TV show (of course everybody thought that she was slipping with the big boss) came in my office telling me I?ve got a little idea for 90 minutes show ? I said ok ? tell me ? she told me her little idea ? I said well go further on it ? and come back to me ? she came back with more interesting ideas ? I said ? Ok you are ready now, ask the boss on the next soon special meeting. And I?ve also told her : lots of ideas are running ? but it will very interesting for you to talk about your idea at this particular moment for the first time, I?m sure lots of our journalists will be interested in your idea ! (just for her to be confidents about her ideas)

    When I realised that she was not invited, I said : Not fair, she is already shunned too much here and we really need to integrate her (cause this specific meeting was a week-end all payed by the society). So she have been invited ? at the meeting when the question about : What?s your proposition for a 90 minutes show ?. The big boss didn?t even gave anyone a chance to talk : He just talk about that girl idea without even saying it was hers. I was amazed !!! Took a look at her and she was boiling ? we were not next to each other but my look was saying : FORGET ??? not important ??? (in my head the most important for you, by now is to get involved in the show) but she couldn?t take it ? when the moment was about who is going to do what ? She raised her hand didn?t wait for him acknowledge cause of course he was looking on the other side ? and she said : as far as it ? He cut her short : wait till I give the hand ! And he never did ?

    After the meeting she told me, I should not have told him before the meeting ? but others told me that they did for their own idea and I thought I should myself ? I hate this guy !!!

    To cut it short : she have been fired 3 weeks later !!!

    Now this guy have a radio show every morning since 2X years ? always saying interesting stuffs on the radio and in his shows ? but when you talk to him directly ? always the same things are coming out of his mouth ? or worst nothing is interesting ? I WONDER HOW THIS GUY BECAME ONE OF OUR FRENCH GREATEST JOURNALIST ? What do you think ???

    And it is not the only one example I?ve got ? and it is just to let you know that the one who is showed is not always the one you think he is ? and this have nothing to do with being a man or a woman. But being a man till now anyway was certainly a big advantage !!!

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