New Kingdom Halls Necesary?????

Downdog01

If enrollment is down why are so many new kingdom halls going up?

Follow the money Downdog. Where do Witnesses go to borrow the money to build Kingdom Halls--the Watchtower Society which gets the money without interest. The Tower also seems to make a lot of money on the plans, building material, etc. As DeepThroat said in All the President's Men, "Follow the money!"

--JAVA

...counting time at the Coffee Shop

outnfree

Last year, we had a congregation split. This was because the congregation had grown to about 150 publishers and the Society likes congregations to number about 80-100 or so -- to keep that intimacy.

There was a new kingdom hall built in a neighboring town. Our congregation was split up between four congregations as territorial lines were redrawn.

However, when I was back at the hall on the night of my disassociation, a part on the service meeting was about getting every single publisher back on the active list for April & May. At the split, we still had about 91 publishers. At the service meeting, it was mentioned that there were 63 active publishers out of 76!!! (Soon to be 75!).

So a new KH was built. But who's filling it? -- Cars are sparse in the parking lot, especially week nights.

outnfree

ozziepost

G'day Java,

Do you think it's really the money?
- Lending with interest : Yes, maybe could be a reason
- Making money on the plans and building materials : Don't think so, have you any details?

Cheers,
Ozzie

Freedom is not having to wear a tie.

philo

I don't think it's about the money. After all, money in the bank earns more interest than when its lent to the congs.

I think its about expansionism, profile, publicity etc.

philo

fodeja

Building KHs keeps the members busy and distracts them from the fact that membership is on the decline. Plus, there's money in it:

Where I live there seems to be a tendency to sell off halls in (now) expensive areas and build combined "hall centers" for 3 congregations or so, usually in less expensive neighbourhoods. Guess who gets the profits _and_ the property?

It works like this: each congregation is registered as what is known in German-speaking countries as a "Verein" (which is something like a nonprofit association). The policy is that whenever such a Verein is dissolved, its assets go entirely to the Society. Now, whenever a combined hall center is built, all the involved Vereine are dissolved and - voila! - the Society suddenly owns all assets of at least three (in some cases up to ten) congregations. Of course, the new hall is not funded by the Society, but again by the faithful publishers. Great, huh?

f.

(edited for clarification)

ozziepost

G'day f,

I'll think we'll be able to remember your name! Welcome to our happy home.

Could I ask a question? When you ask "Guess who gets the profits and the property?" could you now give us the answer? I'm sure you have the facts available to share with us.

Cheers,
Ozzie

Freedom is not having to wear a tie.

fodeja

Hi ozzie,

I've extended my posting above. I don't know how this is handled in the USA or elsewhere, but it's the way they do it in Germany and (AFAIK) Austria and Switzerland, too. The entire point of having a "Verein" per congregation seems to be the ownership (or sometimes rental) of Kingdom Halls. Since only a handful of elders are members of each Verein, lowly congregation publishers do not have any influence on what is happening with the halls they funded with their donations. It's not their property.

f.

philo

fodeja,

Big big welcome to you.

Your comments, about assets passing out of congregation control into society control, are certainly ringing bells for me.

There is definitely a different ownership structure in the UK after a quick-build, and I'm sure it favours the society. But I can't remember the details, I'm afraid.

I guess I could be eating my words up above, no problem.

philo

JAVA

Hi Ozzie,

Making money on the plans and building materials : Don't think so, have you any details?

I left before Quick Builds were started by the Tower, but I've seen posts about the process. From what I understand, many of the building supplies are controlled by the Society or by suppliers the Society "recommends." The supply costs for theocratic material is typically higher than what the JWs could buy locally. I do not know this for a fact, but I've seen it posted by others.

RE: Interest Charges--let's say a group of JWs borrow $500,000 from the Tower @ 3% interest. These are funds the Tower has or receives without interest. On a $500,000 loan, the Tower gets about $15,000 a year from JWs on this loan when it begins. This is nothing more than a building used to recruit others willing to work without pay for a publishing firm. By the time the local JWs nearly pay off the loan, it's time to remodel or build again . . . and the $$$ keeps rolling into the Watchtower's large pockets.

As others pointed out, the Watchtower has ultimate control of these properties if the congregation folds. The local JWs borrows money from the Tower, pays interest to the Tower, the Tower owns it in the long run. Not a bad deal for the Watchtower, I think. Random House Publishing can only dream of tax-free deals like that! "Follow the money."

--JAVA

...counting time at the Coffee Shop

New Kingdom Halls Necesary?????

--JAVA

--JAVA

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