Christianity and human rights

PerFect

A: Human rights, articel nb 1 “All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. …”

B: Christianity, dogma nb 1 “Those who belive in Jesus Christ will be saved”

I can’t get A and B in agreement. With B comes that those not beliving in Jesus will not get saved. Since the christian God will give salvation only to those that belive they must be more worthy then the other who doesn’t belive. So in the cristian Gods eyes all humans are not equal, and this leads to that those who follow this God doesn’t think that all humans are equal. Some people are worthy of this free? gift of everlasting life and some are not worthy of it. And this goes against A. Conclusion is that christianity is not in agreement with UN:s human right articel nb 1. Am i right or wrong?

This thing that salvation by faith in Jesus and not by works leads to that someone can do a lot of good things and never hurt anybody but if he/she doesn’t belive in Jesus, sorry mate. And if someone act as a bunghole (learned that word on the chat with some aussies) and belives in Jesus will be saved.

Greetings from a swede who for the last year have lurked a lot on H2O and now here. Now i am an inactive Jw who are in the process of slowly fade away but have problems how and when to tell my family.
/ Per Fect

patio34

Hi PerFect, Nice to make your acquaintance. Welcome to the board and enjoy your stay.

I agree with you that it doesn't make sense that a person could be very good and humanitarian, but yet not be 'saved' if he just couldn't believe, or if his exposure to it was negative. Or if (s)he were raised in another strong religious setting.

Pat

BugEye

PerFect

Excellent use of the word bunghole, you are indeed to be commended.
BTW "cristians" would simply say that the UN doesnt agree with GOD, end of story.

Lots of things I dont understand, like exactly why there are so many bungholes in this world.

Dave

Yerusalyim

Perfect,

That you can't get your two propositions to agree is simply amazing to me. Your logic and your premise are flawed. We all start out the same in God's eyes, fully of human dignity and unsaved. Jesus died for all, not just for some. No one is worthy of the salvation offered by Christ. That some reach out and grasp the opportunity of the Salvation of Christ doesn't make them any better than other humans. A free gift is offered, worthiness doesn't play into it at all or Jesus death was entirely unnecessary.

Just as someone might grasp an opportunity to improve themselves economically, does that make them better than their fellow humans? No, not at all. God's salvation is offered freely to all. How God works the salvation issue for those who have not heard the Gospel is up to him, but Romans chapter 2 gives a good hint as to how he views them. As to the guy who does good works, well works is not part of salvation. But the guy whose a "bunghole" well, there's this cool phrase that says "Faith without works is dead" If a guys is consistently a bunghole, does he really have faith?

Bugeye, you were wrong about what the "christian" response would be. The two propositions are NOT mutually exclusive. While disagreeing with the UN on some issues in this case they are not wrong. However "Perfects" logic is flawed.

Just my two cents worth.

YERU

Yes, everyone is indeed created equal

YERUSALYIM
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespere: Hamlet

MacHislopp

Hello Perfect,

Interesting post. Personally I do agree with :

Yerusalyim

"We all start out the same in God's eyes, fully of human dignity and unsaved. Jesus died for all, not just for some. No one is worthy of the salvation offered by Christ. That some reach out and grasp the opportunity of the Salvation of Christ doesn't make them any better than other humans. A free gift is offered, worthiness doesn't play into it at all or Jesus death was entirely unnecessary. "

Just for my opinion (and thanks to Yerusalym),
agape J.C. MacHislopp

Francois

Personally, I think there's a great deal of misunderstanding of what it means to "believe in Jesus."

Fundy christians believe that you must believe in the concept of original sin; believe in the atonement doctrine; you must believe that Christ was sent here to propitiate an angry god, an offended lord; believe that Jesus died for your sins; the entire magilla. And you must verbally demonstrate your belief in these items on a regular basis and that you drag your carcass down to the church each time the door is open. Best if you tithe as well.

And in fact, it seems that the majority of christians feel these are the basic requirements necessary to secure for one's self the benefits and blessings of Christ's life and death here, and so to be saved.

On the other hand, believing in Jesus may also be taken to mean that you: love God with a whole soul; that you love your neighbor as yourself, and that your entire life is obvious proof and sure evidence that you are thus dedicated to these beautiful commandments of love.

By this definition any sentient person on this planet is able to look foward with assurance that they are "saved" and that eternal life will be theirs.

By this definition, and in his practice of life, Gandhi - a Hindu - is one of the greatest christians who ever lived. And so too Lao Tzu. And sincere religionists of whatever philosophy.

Of what benefit is it to claim to be a christian, to claim to “believe” in Christ; to give a tenth of the mint and the cumin, to dance attendance on each and every church program; to go to tent revivals and sing at the top of your lungs, shattering glass at a range of a hundred yards; to be in church Sunday all day long - and then sin like a son-of-a-bitch all week long?

I think believing in Jesus means living your life as he would: loving god (by whatever name) with a whole soul; by loving your neighbor (whatever religion); and by going about doing good in your life.

As for me and my family, we’ll put our money on that last example.

terraly

I think I agree with you Francoise.
(you too Yeru)

Pardon me if I'm putting words in your mouth, but are you basically saying that Christianity is simply a means to the end (love)?

This is one of the ways I look at it. Raised in the Judeo-Christian tradition I have a hard time getting at the fundamental truths through other religious angles- but I recognize the validity of those approaches.

PerFect

Thanks all for your replies and making me welcome.
Yeru and Francoise have given me some other views i wasn’t thinking of before. Feel i have to melt and think about your argument before comment or debatt them. Things go so fast here.

Take care and thanks again for your input.

/PerFect

Christianity and human rights

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