by shotgun 8 Replies latest watchtower scandals
Not sure from reading CoC.
Was alternative service an option available to JW's in Malawi instead of purchasing a political party card or was this only an issue in countries where military service was mandatory?
Wondering if countries like Korea offer alternative service to jail time seeing it is now considered a conscience matter?
Malawi was not mandating military service. This was not the issue. All the government wanted was basically an ID card, although there were some overtones of support for the government involved.
So, alternative service wouldn't have made sense. There was no service being asked.
So for Malawi there was no alternative, either purchase the card or suffer?
How about other countries which had mandatory military service like Korea. Can JW's there now accept alternative service?
I don't think South Korea has alternative service and I know North Korea doesn't. Just think about it, South Korea has to maintain a military readiness that the US does not have have to. If Canada and Mexico, were armed to the teeth and ready to invade.....
Blondie
If there was no alternative not to buy the political party card in Malawi in the 60's and 70's what about now?
Would it be considered a conscience matter now? Would the society let ones in Malawi buy the card today?
http://www.c3.hu/~farkashe/english/countries.htm
This shows the levels of conscription in various countries and any alternatives. There is no conscription in Malawi.
Many African countries now have community service that is required though. The WTS allows each JW to make a personal decision.
If the political card issue came up again, would these principles apply? I don't think so. But if community service were offered as an alternative, I think the WTS would let a JW choose it.
*** w96 5/1 19-20 Paying Back Caesar's Things to Caesar ***16 However, there are lands where the State, while not allowing exemption for ministers of religion, nevertheless acknowledges that some individuals may object to military service. Many of these lands make provision for such conscientious individuals not to be forced into military service. In some places a required civilian service, such as useful work in the community, is regarded as nonmilitary national service. Could a dedicated Christian undertake such service? Here again, a dedicated, baptized Christian would have to make his own decision on the basis of his Bible-trained conscience.
17 It seems that compulsory service was practiced in Bible times. One history book states: "In addition to the taxes and dues exacted from the inhabitants of Judea, there was also a corvée [unpaid labor exacted by public authorities]. This was an ancient institution in the East, which the Hellenistic and Roman authorities continued to maintain. . . . The New Testament, too, cites examples of corvée in Judea, showing how widespread it was. In accordance with this custom, the soldiers pressed Simon of Cyrene into carrying Jesus? cross [torture stake] (Matthew 5:41; 27:32; Mark 15:21; Luke 23:26)."
18 Similarly, citizens in some countries today are required by the State or by local authorities to participate in various forms of community service. Sometimes this is for a specific task, such as digging wells or building roads; sometimes it is on a regular basis, such as weekly participation in cleaning up roads, schools, or hospitals. Where such civilian service is for the good of the community and is not connected with false religion or is not in some other way objectionable to the consciences of Jehovah?s Witnesses, they have often complied. (1 Peter 2:13-15) This has usually resulted in an excellent witness and has sometimes silenced those who falsely accuse the Witnesses of being antigovernment.?Compare Matthew 10:18.
19 What, though, if the State requires a Christian for a period of time to perform civilian service that is a part of national service under a civilian administration? Here again, Christians must make their own decision based on an informed conscience. "We shall all stand before the judgment seat of God." (Romans 14:10) Christians faced with a requirement of Caesar should prayerfully study the matter and meditate on it. It may also be wise to talk the matter over with mature Christians in the congregation. After this a personal decision must be made.?Proverbs 2:1-5; Philippians 4:5.
20 While engaged in such research, Christians would consider a number of Bible principles. Paul said that we must "be obedient to governments and authorities as rulers, . . . be ready for every good work . . . be reasonable, exhibiting all mildness toward all men." (Titus 3:1, 2) At the same time, Christians would do well to examine the proposed civilian work. If they accept it, will they be able to maintain Christian neutrality? (Micah 4:3, 5; John 17:16) Would it involve them with some false religion? (Revelation 18:4, 20, 21) Would performing it prevent or unreasonably limit them from fulfilling their Christian responsibilities? (Matthew 24:14; Hebrews 10:24, 25) On the other hand, would they be able to continue to make spiritual progress, perhaps even sharing in the full-time ministry while performing the required service??Hebrews 6:11, 12.
21 What if the Christian?s honest answers to such questions lead him to conclude that the national civilian service is a "good work" that he can perform in obedience to the authorities? That is his decision before Jehovah. Appointed elders and others should fully respect the conscience of the brother and continue to regard him as a Christian in good standing. If, however, a Christian feels that he cannot perform this civilian service, his position should also be respected. He too remains in good standing and should receive loving support.?1 Corinthians 10:29; 2 Corinthians 1:24; 1 Peter 3:16.
Some links that might shed some light:
http://www.freeminds.org/women/disassociation.htm
This one has a direct quote from Crisis of Conscious:
http://www.freeminds.org/history/crisis.htm
Another "conscience" issue for Witnesses involved political party membership cards. When the ruling element in the African country of Malawi demanded that citizens purchase "party cards", the Watchtower Society took a stand against it. In adhering to this position, Malawian Witnesses faced imprisonment, beatings and severe mistreatment at the hands of government loyalists.
Meanwhile, in Mexico Witnesses were in the habit of bribing officials to obtain cards identifying them as members of the reserves who had fulfilled a year of military service. Not having the cartilla would result in some inconvenience, but not the sort of suffering Witnesses faced in Malawi.Franz relates in detail how Watchtower headquarters gave its approval to both policies, leaving African JWs to face brutal persecution, while permitting Mexican Witnesses to buy cards 'under the table.' This caused much suffering in Africa. And it helped cause the "crisis of conscience" Raymond Franz experienced as a member of the Governing Body whose votes enforced these contradictory rulings.
I cannot begin to describe my feelings of revulsion for this organization.
Thanks Blondie as always and you to Gretchen956 for the info and links.
how can one proof that the brothers in Malawi did not act out of their own will. Where can I find proof that the Watchtower Society said that they could not obtain an ID card?
And, does anybody know where to find info regarding the "cartilla" that mexican Brothers obtain by bribing officilas?
sunshine
