Who does the 'God' in 1 Jn 5:20 reffer to?

by grzesiek32 4 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • grzesiek32
    grzesiek32

    Verse 1 Jn 5:20


    One of the meaningful verses showing that Jesus is the true God is verse 1 Jn 5:20

    1 Jn5:20 20 And we are certain that the Son of God has come, and has given us a clear vision, so that we may see him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. (BBE)

    In this verse there is something special. Everybody who is reading this fragment doesn't have any doubts that apostle John calls Jesus true God. If anybody is told by non-trinitaries that this fragment refers to the Father, not to the Son he startes to think it over how this is possible. One has to want to see it in order to see that 'God' refers to the Father. Let me cite a fragment of Mr. Bednarski's book "W obronie wiary" that means "In defence of faith":

    „(...)Ciekawe, że „Prowadzenie rozmów na podstawie pism” i „Czy wierzyć w Trójcę?” nie omawiają tego wersetu (w latach 1960-2000 wspomniano o nim tylko 2 razy). Czy ten tekst dot. Bóstwa Jezusa sprawia ŚJ tyle problemu, że wolą go przemilczać? (...)”

    "(...) It is very interesting, that "Reasoning from The Scriptures" and "Should You Believe in the Trinity" don't discuss this verse (from 1960 to 2000 it was mentioned only 2 times). Does this verse showing that Jesus is God cause so many problems for them, that they prefer to leave it unsaid? (...)"

    But let us stop that discussion and let us have a look at non-trinities' argumentation:

    The whole problem boils down to the used pronoun 'houtos' which was translated in this verse into 'He'. In non-trinities opinion trinities think, that it refers to the Son, because the pronoun follows His name - Jesus Christ. And then they give us some verses showing that it doesn't have to be a sufficient reason:

    2 Jn 1:7 Because a number of false teachers have gone out into the world, who do not give witness that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. Such a one (Gr. houtos) is a false teacher and Antichrist. (BBE)

    In this verse one can see that 'houtos' follows Jesus Christ who obviously cannot be the false teacher and Antichrist. Next example:

    Act 4:10-11
    10. Take note, all of you, and all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you put to death on the cross, whom God gave back from the dead, even through him is this man now before you completely well.
    11. He (Gr. houtos) is the stone which you builders had no use for, but which has been made the chief stone of the building
    (BBE)

    It is obvoius that the healed man isn't the stone.

    What is more they started to investigate the context. They noticed that this verse says that we are in the true one, and the word 'true' is used twice, so it means that the true God must refer to the true one. Besides, they also noticed that in verse Jn 17:3 The Father is called the only true God. But there are some matters they left unsaid. The first thing is what the pronoun refers to:

    1. The main topic of the sentence (if only the context doesn't clearly deny it)
    2. to him who is before the pronoun (if only the context doesn't deny it)
    3. To him who is indicated by the context.

    The third point is the most important and can deny the first and the second one.

    But in verse 1 Jn 5:20 all of those conditions are fulfilled that the word 'God' reffers to Jesus. Below I will describe the first and the third point (the second one is obvious).

    1. Jesus is the main topic of the sentence.

    In this verse it is Jesus not the Father who comes to the fore. Have a look at this verse once again:

    1 Jn 5:20 20 And we are certain that the Son of God has come, and has given us a clear vision, so that we may see him who is true [*] , and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ===. He is the true God and eternal life. (BBE)

    There are neither such words like 'Father' nor 'God'. There are some words like "him who is true". The Father isn't clearly mentioned, but the name of Jesus Christ is. He is called here as "Son of God", "His Son" and "Jesus Christ". What's more some translations put word 'God' where the star in bracket is [*], but this word we don't find in the oldest manuscripts, so one has to admit, that translations without this word are more similar to tho original. Besides that, this verse begins and ends with Jesus Christus which makes Him come to the fore much more.

    3. The context shows us that this 'God' both refers to Jesus and denies that it refers to the Father only.

    What for would apostle John say that "the true one is the true God". Doesn't it sound strange? Besides, in this letter he called the Father "God" many times, so the fact that Father is true God was obvious for addressees. This whole letter was dedicated to Jesus Christ. We can see that at the beginning of the letter:

    1 Jn 1:1-2
    1. That which was from the first, which has come to our ears, and which we have seen with our eyes, looking on it and touching it with our hands, about the Word of life
    2. (And the life was made clear to us, and we have seen it and are witnessing to it and giving you word of that eternal life which was with (Gr. pros) the Father and was seen by us);
    (BBE)

    Let's compare this verse to the beginning of the Gospel written by the same author:

    Jn 1:1-2
    1. From the first he was the Word, and the Word was in relation with God and was God.
    2. This Word was from the first in relation with (Gr. pros) God.
    (BBE)

    We can see a clear symilarity over here. Once he indentifies Jesus as a "Word" and once as "eternal life" saying that He was with Father.

    1 Jn 5:11-12
    11. And his witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
    12. He who has the Son has the life; he who has not the Son of God has not the life.
    (BBE)

    and some verses later is this verse:

    1 Jn 5:20 And we are certain that the Son of God has come, and has given us a clear vision, so that we may see him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. (BBE)

    He who is called 'God' is called also "eternal life".

    There are some verses that seem very interesting:

    Jn 11:25
    11. Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;

    (NIV)

    Jn 14:6
    6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

    (NIV)

    I made some effort to check if there was writen anywhere that the Father was called "eternal life" or just simply "Life". I couldn't find! I am not going to prove that the Father isn't the life, but I just want to show that the apostles paid a great attontion that the life is in His Son, which shows us that this 'God' refers to the Son.

    Going bact to non-trinities arguments, never mind that the Father is called the only true God. Son is callled the only Lord and Master (Jud 4) and it doesn't interfere with calling the Father 'Master' - Act 4:24 or 'Lord' - Mk 12:29.

    Now I would like to pay attention to one detail that isn't seen with the naked eye. Let's look at this verse once again:

    1 Jn5:20 20 And we are certain that the Son of God has come, and has given us a clear vision, so that we may see him who is true, and we are in him who is true,[*] in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. (BBE)

    And the question is: So, at last who are we in? In Him who is true or in His Son? It is a verse confirming that Father and Son are one! Being in the Father is being in His Son. Where the star in brackets is there is no conjunction 'and' (Gr. kai). If there was the conjunction the Father would be separated from Son. This verse harmonizes with that verse:

    Jn 10:30 I and my Father are one. (BBE)

    Summary:
    Showing, that all those arguments indicating that the Word 'God' refers to Jesus I didn't intend to prove that every of those arguments (such as "'houtos' refers to the subiect of sentence", "'houtos' refers to the one who is followed by this pronoun", and so on) is so strong, that it isn't possible to find any example which denies this rule. Obviously we can find some examples that deny those. But one cannot expect that in one verse there are 10 sensations which would deny all those rules. We cannot expect that in one verse there are a lot of strange cases that every of them occures 1 per 100.

    Greg (From Poland)
  • JWnomore
    JWnomore

    Which part of Poland are you from? Are you Evangelical? Why post this too at CARM.org. There's a JW and Trinity forum there.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Greg.....see my post below from just a few days ago:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/63037/967257/post.ashx#967257

  • grzesiek32
    grzesiek32

    Hello everybody. it is very nice to meet you.

    JWnomore wrote:

    Which part of Poland are you from? Are you Evangelical? Why post this too at CARM.org. There's a JW and Trinity forum there.
    1. From Warsaw 2. No. Catholic.
    Why are you asking?
    CARM.org??? Can you give me the link...
    Leolaila wrote:
    Greg.....see my post below from just a few days ago:
    Very interesting... :-) I like it.
    Regards...
    Greg
  • JWnomore
    JWnomore

    Hey Greg, I'm an Evangelical so I guess that makes me one of your 'seperated' brethren. haha. The address of the site is www.carm.org. We have a lot of Catholics there too. But I hope you spend time with the JW and Trinity forum of that site more. My handle name there is "saved".

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