More results of growing up in the "Borg"

by Liberty 5 Replies latest jw friends

  • Liberty
    Liberty

    A very interesting topic. Part of the reason we're all here on these sites is to share our similarities and compare ourselves to others who have gone through the same things seeking the reassurance that we are not complete "freaks" after all. I've noticed that their are several traits that Watch Tower mind control commonly produces in their victims. One of the most troublesome for me has been the sense that I should use up all my resources in the here and now because there will be no tomarrow, or future as such, even though I know intellectually that there is really no impending Armegeddon I have just never learned to emotionally accept the need for insurance or retirement planning. Luckily I've fallen into jobs which make some provision for these future needs but I have no interest in expanding upon them nor do worry about what would happen if I left my job. I have no investments outside of Social Secruity and my manditory employment retirement plan. I carry no life insurance except the plan through my job and my(never been JW) girl friend is horrified by my lack of concern in these regards. Intellectually I know such things are important but I have no enthusiasm or interest in acting upon my rational knowledge. I just float through life as if I'm going to live forever and that the culture I'm immersed in is very temporary and unimportant except when it provides my immediate needs. I know such feelings are irrational and even dangerous but that's how I feel. After years of Watch Tower brain washing is it really any wonder I feel this way?

    I finally finished a University degree(I had an awful time with spelling and algebra thanks to my JW attitude in High School) which was the first real acknowledgement of a rational and realistic goal with any future in mind. I have yet to put this degree to good use. I'm now approaching middle age and still have no house. I want children yet have never married nor do I have any practical plans to fullfill this desire because it feels like I have lots of time to wory about these things, yet, intellectually I know I don't. I will be an old man by the time my children are teenagers even if I had them right now. I have no savings and had an horrendous debt load before declaring bankruptcy a few years ago. Don't get me wrong, I feel wonderful since leaving the "Truth"...I mean Borg over 20 years ago but it still has an effect even now,especially in areas where human nature easily and naturally wants to go.

    The Watch Tower knows how to tap into our basest emotions and instincts and living in the here and now the way an animal naturally does is encouraged by the "End of the World" mindset combined with "I'm going to live forever in a healthy young body". We JW's filled in our intellectual/cultural need to postpone gratification and practice self disciplin with the whole routine sacrifice of our lives as JW's because this was our investment/insurance plan, but we were encouraged in "worldly" matters to live as if there were no tomarrow and that's easy to do and I have continued to do this even though I know better now. After a full day of JW routine who has the energy to have "worldly" concerns anyway?

    I've been lucky health wise but how long can that last? I'm unprepared for the aging process and the expenses and problems this will bring as I inevitably will fall apart. I watch uncles and aunts who were healthy and vigerous just 5 years ago sicken and die, icily reminding me that I must soon follow whether I'm emotionally ready or not. I really feel that as JW's we were all further away from the grim reality of death in a way that non-JW's find hard to understand. It is natural to put death out of our minds and "worldly" folks do this too but the WT Society takes this natural ability and stretches it to its outermost limit. We really believed we would never have to grow old and die because the "End" was always so near and the horrors we would live through, including seeing the deaths of non-believing family and friends, seemed like a realistic and even "fair" price to pay for such a reward. It's strange how this horrible price and the mass murder of the other billions made this dream of everlasting life all the more real, bypassing our natural skepticism because it didn't seem too good to be true. It brings to mind the horrible price that most Germans were willing to pay in order to establish the paradise-like Nazi Reich promised by Hitler if they just worked harder, sacrificed more, and had faith that all the nasty extermination programs and destruction would get them there. Communism uses the same tactics to get to their "Worker's Paradise" so there are victims of this kind of thinking everywhere I guess. The desire for a better life in utopian paradises, greed really, makes us insane and irrational in a slow imperceptable way that pushes common sense out of the way leaving a path for madness. Just rambling a bit. What do you all think?

  • Francois
    Francois

    I think you should stop making excuses for failing to attend to business, business like: providing for your retirement; deciding to have children or not; taking care of your health; and all the other business you listed.

    Your note essentially said that you bought into the Borg's reasoning about the future, and even though you know better now about the real nature of the Borg, you continue to use your training with them to justify what sounds a lot like a natural laziness.

    Believe me, when you're 70 years old and are scouting out the dog food at the supermarket because you can't purchase real food, it will not matter that you blame the Borg for it, then or now.

    You are responsible for you. I suggest you get down to business.

    Francois

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    Liberty,

    I remember (in our family, anyhow) that we would plan for the future and put things aside for it "just in case Armageddon delayed". My dad encouraged me to get post-high school secular training, encouragement for which I am still grateful.

    I'd say meet with an estate planner/ financial planner. What they help you do is map out your goals, at least financially, for the future. It'll force you to think about...what would you like to save for? A house? Education for future children? Dream vacations? Savings for retirement?

    That will help you get on the road to "life planning" with some goals, and you'll be better set for the uncertainties of old age which you allude to in your post.

    Gopher, enjoying the fresh air

  • Tina
    Tina

    Hi Liberty,

    You ended your post with the question,What do you think?'.
    Ok here's what I think FWIW.

    You've been gone from the wts for 20 yrs and you're still wallowing in the role of 'victim". You say:
    I know I need to make financial plans ,but I won't(cuz the wts.
    I'd like to have a house,marriage and kids-but I won't-cuz the watchtower.
    I have no enthusiasm or interest in life cuz the wts. etc etc etc.

    You acknowledge the areas that need work.

    What are you going to DO about them?
    It's really easy to abdicate personal responsibilty by giving in to this victim role.
    It's easy to to keep on talking about 'what they did to you'.
    It's time(way overdue IMHO) to get up and take some personal action and responsibility.

    You said animals live in the here and now. I beg to differ,mature actualized,responsible people live in the here and now and think of their future.
    It's time to put aside your rescue fantasies -time to stop magical thinking. That something is going to happen without any meaningful effort on your part.
    The lack of meaningful action characterizes all magical thinking.
    "Oh I'll worry about it tommorrow or things have a way of taking care of itself........
    As long as you keep on thinking this way,it allows you to avoid taking action that is needed to effect change.
    This thinking allows you to cast yourself and keep yourself in your present role in order to avoid looking and acting upon the realistic ingredients that go into making out lives WORK(action word here)

    Just another thought. Have you ever explored yourself thru therapy?
    Have you ever thought about what keeps you unmotivated to effect positive change?
    Maybe explore the defenses we use,and why we get sometimes get stuck in them?
    What's really keeping you so detached for the reality of life?(and after 20 yrs,no it's not the Wts)
    Have you ever considered cognitive therapy as a way to re-frame how you think and view the world around you?
    Maybe explore why you remain so detached from yourself and the world around you?
    Floating thru life is existing,not living.

    Just some questions Liberty that I needed to face up too and work on after I left the borg.
    I sincerely hope,you take ACTION, recognize that YOU are resonsible for your life and decsions made about it.
    There are many things we do have some modicum of control over. ALl the issues in your post have workable solutions. It's really up to you to take the 'victim,poor me" hat off now and try on some new ones.
    Wishing you the best,Tina

  • Liberty
    Liberty

    Francoise,

    Your Dr. Laura-like compassion and psychological insights are remarkable. You should get your own show. Why didn't I think of the obvious answers to these problems, I'm lazy and stupid and I just need to get my act together. Your deep philosophical answers are very helpful and I'm sure that the millions of other ex-JW's never are bothered by the psychological conditions I described because it's just me and I'm the only one. You remind me of the smug-know-it-alls who proclaim they have never looked at porn so it must just be me that supports this multi-billion dollor industry because I'm the only "pervert" in the whole world. How old are you? You sound like one of the way post-75 JW kids who never took the Armageddon thing very seriously and benifitted from the reforms on higher education so maybe you don't understand what I'm talking about. I wasn't asking for help, I know what's wrong with me. I was just seeing how others felt about this stuff and what they did to deal with it.

    I have coped quite well thank you. I have over 200 completed college credit hours with a 3.8 GPA despite working two jobs and recieving no financial support from anyone but me. What's your college GPA? How many jobs do you work? Since I'm so stupid and lazy you're obviously smarter and a better worker than I am you must work 4 jobs and have a 4.0 with 400 credit hours. In short, you don't know a damn thing about me so don't judge what I'm like. For someone who tells others they need to get out od their Watch Tower thinking mode you still think just like an arrogant JW. I would have expected such a response from You Know but was hurt that it came from someone who claims to be out. We're all still suffering from the Society's influence just like an abused child can never escape the damage done to them. It is possible to overcome our past but we cannot escape it completely. I wasn't looking for sympathy or help I was just wondering if other ex-JW's ever felt that these same things had limited their success. I was just asking why I am the way I am and tossing out suggestions. Since you are perfect I guess you never wondered about the potentials you never met? I have a good and productive life and have been meeting my own needs since I was 17 years old. I've made mistakes and I often wonder how my life could have been better if I'd never been raised as a JW and that's all my post was about. Haven't you ever wondered why you can't meet all your own expectations and looked for the reasons why? I am not some helpless victim just because I ask what things are holding me back from some of my goals. I also don't blame the Watch Tower for all my problems or successes. If you would have read my post more carefully you would see that I admit that my own nature was involved in my weaknesses all I pointed out was that the Watch Tower cult taps into these common weaknesses and uses them to their advantage. If your life is perfect and you have no self doubt then you are one lucky person. If this is the case, it makes sense that you have so little understanding of the rest of humanity which is obviously so far below you.

  • larc
    larc

    Liberty,

    If you don't want advice, don't ask for it. I agree with the advice given to you especially Francoise's. You are blaming your present failings on your history and that is a cop out. You might reread Tina's advise to you. You need to find some way to overcome your inertia, and don't look for others to blame. As far as your accomplishments, Francoise, myself, and many others have done all that and much, much more, believe me. So stop crying "poor me" and take personal responsibility for your life.

    Larc - of the kinder, gentler class.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit