Jesus is Lord...as in Jehovah god...in Reference NWT

NikL

I wish I could say I found this but I saw it in a vid from watchtower examination...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK7ErTnCbSk

In it he points out that in the reference bible used by JWs they admit that Jesus and Jehovah are the same thing.

So I looked it up online on JW.org

Yep it's there.

1 Peter 3:15

But sanctify the Christ as Lord* in YOUR hearts,+ always ready to make a defense+ before everyone that demands of YOU a reason for the hope in YOU, but doing so together with a mild temper+ and deep respect.*

Click the asterisk by lord and this comes up...

“The Christ as Lord,” אABC; TR, “the Lord God”; J7,8,11-14,16,17,24, “Jehovah God.”

Do you see what I see?

Anyone have a good JW explanation for that?

pale.emperor

I was always good at refuting the trinity as a JW, but I've never seen this before in the reference bible. And after researching... I have no explanation.

Good find.

Anyone care to assist?

Saename

It's because of the difference in the Greek texts. There are two main variations:

Κύριον (kyrion meaning Lord) δὲ τὸν Χριστὸν (christon meaning Christ) ἁγιάσατε ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν, ἕτοιμοι ἀεὶ πρὸς ἀπολογίαν παντὶ τῷ αἰτοῦντι ὑμᾶς λόγον περὶ τῆς ἐν ὑμῖν ἐλπίδος,

Κύριον (kyrion meaning Lord) δὲ τὸν Θεὸν (theon meaning God) ἁγιάσατε ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν· ἕτοιμοι δὲ ἀεὶ πρὸς ἀπολογίαν παντὶ τῷ αἰτοῦντι ὑμᾶς λόγον περὶ τῆς ἐν ὑμῖν ἐλπίδος, μετά πραΰτητος καί φόβου

The first one contains two titles "Κύριον" and "Χριστὸν" which mean Lord Christ.

The second one contains two titles "Κύριον" and "Θεὸν" which together mean Lord God. This one also doesn't have the word "Χριστὸν".

Whether you translate the verse as "Lord Christ" (or Christ as Lord) or "Lord God" depends on which Greek text you're using. NRSV uses the first variation and therefore translates to "Christ as Lord.

Edit: This is to say that when the JW Bible with references has "Jehovah God" in the footnote, it does not refer to Jesus.

NikL

This is to say that when the JW Bible with references has "Jehovah God" in the footnote, it does not refer to Jesus.

Okay...Not sure I get what you are saying.

The footnote says ...

“The Christ as Lord,” אABC; TR, “the Lord God”; J7,8,11-14,16,17,24, “Jehovah God.”

when referring to proclaiming "Christ as Lord". So it is saying Jesus Christ is "Jehovah God" no?

Maybe I am not reading the format of the footnote correctly?

Saename

NikL, you are misinterpreting the footnote. The footnote does not say Jesus is Jehovah. The footnote is acknowledging that there is another textual variant of the Greek text which says, "but in your hearts sanctify God as Lord" as opposed to "but in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord." Let me translate the two textual variants for you so it is easier:

TEXTUAL VARIANT #1

Κύριον δὲ τὸν Χριστὸν ἁγιάσατε ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν, ἕτοιμοι ἀεὶ πρὸς ἀπολογίαν παντὶ τῷ αἰτοῦντι ὑμᾶς λόγον περὶ τῆς ἐν ὑμῖν ἐλπίδος.

[...] moreover, sanctify in your hearts Christ [christos] as Lord. Always be ready to make a defense to anyone who is asking you for an account concerning the hope that is in you.

This textual variant is talking about Christ. It's clear because it contains the word christos. It calls Christ "Lord."

TEXTUAL VARIANT #2

Κύριον δὲ τὸν Θεὸν ἁγιάσατε ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν· ἕτοιμοι δὲ ἀεὶ πρὸς ἀπολογίαν παντὶ τῷ αἰτοῦντι ὑμᾶς λόγον περὶ τῆς ἐν ὑμῖν ἐλπίδος, μετά πραΰτητος καί φόβου

[...] moreover, sanctify in your hearts God [theon] as Lord. Always be ready to make a defense with gentleness and fear to anyone who is asking you for an account concerning the hope that is in you.

This textual variant is not talking about Christ. It does not contain the word christos; it contains the word theon, and as such, it refers to Yahweh. It says, "sanctify in your hearts God as Lord."

So this footnote...

“The Christ as Lord,” אABC; TR, “the Lord God”; J7,8,11-14,16,17,24, “Jehovah God.”

...means that there is one textual variant which reads, "Christ as Lord," and there is also a second textual variant which reads, "God as Lord." The footnote does not equate Jehovah God to Christ. It is merely acknowledging that there are two different textual variants—one refers to Christ, and the other to God.

smiddy

The Bible is like a musical instrument you can play any tune on it you like .

That doesnt say much for a God who is supposed to preserve his word does it.

TheWonderofYou

"second it seems more likely in context that Peter did not want to stress that Christ is Lord but that believers should set him apart and treat him as Lord."

"Lord Jesus Christ" "Lord and Savior Jesus Christ"

My comment: Christian were persecuted because of Jesus Christ and not because of using or pronouncing the tetragram as "Jehova".

"Kyrios" was the word used for God in the greek world, which also replaced the jewish tetragram. Christian authors did not argue, that Christian bible writers should return to the Tetragram (Jewish name of god) and preach the tetragram worldwide as gospel, but they used Kyrios, Lord to replace the old jewish tetragram and preached Jesus as Lord.

This was one of the reasons why Christians treated always Jesus as Lord in their hearts.

Does the text argue Deity of Christ?

....

From: The Gospel of Christ by Thomas Stegall page 691.

https://books.google.at/books?id=uj9H4Jab9DMC&pg=PA691&dq=kyrios+yhwh+1+peter+3+15&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiEltiW983RAhWCQBoKHYlZDE8Q6AEIdDAJ#v=onepage&q=kyrios%20yhwh%201%20peter%203%2015&f=false

NikL

Thanks for the input Saename and TheWonderOfYou...it's as clear as mud to me now ;-)

I assume a textural variant is basically a different version of the same text as the name implys?

So that would mean that one of the texts was in error no?

If that is the case, than it would be up to the reader to figure out which one makes more sense in line with the rest of scripture.

Saename

Yes, a textual variant is a different version of the same text. Most Bibles do not use the word "God" in 1 Peter 3.15 but the word "Christ." But then again, it should be noted that plenty of Bibles come from mainstream Christians who accept Jesus as God, so it makes no difference to them.

Jesus is Lord...as in Jehovah god...in Reference NWT

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