Abortion compared to killing kids at Armageddon

by expatbrit 4 Replies latest jw friends

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  expatbrit

  As a JW, I was always disturbed by the inconsistency in the society's position on abortion / kids dying at Armageddon.

  The WT opposes abortion, calling it murder. Yet if a child is just one day old when Armageddon comes, it will perish with it's parents, since the parents bear responsibility for their children. So goes the WT line.

  I could never reconcile these two viewpoints. Neither could other JW's I asked. An elder once attempted to justify the slaughter of children at Armageddon with the reasoning that "little rats grow up to be big rats". (!).

  Did anyone else have difficulty with this, or get other explanations to try and justify it?

  Surely if it is wrong to kill an unborn baby because that baby is a separate person, a separate life, then it is equally wrong to kill a newborn, who is far too young to have even heard of God, let alone decided whether to worship him or not?

  Expatbrit
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  patio34

  Yes, Expatbrit, I never believed that WT doctrine. Years ago, I wrote the WTBS about it, using the rationale that Eze. 18 argues against it in that there is the arguement the son should not die for the sin of his father. And, imo, that gave the lie to children dying at Armageddon for the selfsame reason Eze. argued against.

  The reply was 'it would be very unwise to state either way.' But, I don't think that is the way the WTs are written. Where did all the JWs get the idea that they would? Has to be the WT.

  In a way it's far worse than a very early abortion, because it would be a fully formed, sentient being, instead of the VERY early fetus. NOT THAT I AM PRO-ABORTION, just saying killing a baby or toddler, etc., is even worse.

  Pat
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  Moxy

  yes, that has always been difficult to reconcile. i also a heard similar analogy as a child that stuck with me of household 'pests', rats or roaches, that when you exterminate the adult pests you do not leave the children to see if maybe they grow up to be different, you exterminate them all. even my childhood mind had trouble with that. and my adult mind has more than trouble with that. but this 'illustration' was put forward quite earnestly by a kind brother. tho i rejected this euphimism, i still necessarilly had to try and justify things to myself. i reasoned that to jehovah, lives were so short that a day and 80 years meant very little difference and the presonal revulsion we might feel was a product of our short-sightedness. i had just assumed that there were things about Jehovah's mind that we just couldnt really fathom and would even find objectionable due to the incredibly vast difference in outlook we have.

  well, it wasnt much but it kept me going for a while.

  mox
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  CornerStone

  Hello Expatbrit,

  You raised very good questions. We live in a very confusing period of time. We look back and see peoples in many lands taking the lives of babies in times of war and conquest and say "how barbaric!"
  However today a woman or minor can have her unborn baby "aborted" piece by piece in her late term all the while the baby screams, (silently?), in agony and it's not only legal but is looked on as a "right".
  I say this because I believe that ones point of view plays the greatest role in how we understand such disturbing occurences such as infanticide. I believe that human beings have only a limited sense of justice but a limitless sense of injustice. This can be seen by the cruelty of the 20th century alone, Hitler and the gas chambers, Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq and the Kurds, and so on.

  But what about God sanctioning infanticide, such as in the time of Isreals' creation when they were driving out the Hittites, the Jebusites and so on, how He told the Jewish soldiers "not to let their eye feel sorry" for the young ones they were to kill? Or how about the Biblical account of the flood? There were sure to be innocent babies who drowned along with the children and adults. How could a KIND, LOVING, RIGHTEOUS God KILL an innocent baby He helped bring into the world and who NEVER had an opportunity to willfully sin against Him?

  I think the strightfoward answer is the hardest one for contemporary people to accept because it means we don't have all the answers and we are not in control of our lives. God was willing to sacrifice the lives of those innocent, (yes innocent), babies for the future wellbeing of His people, knowing the type of influence they would have on His people when they grew up. Does God have the sovereign right to do this? Yes He does. He is the creator. This exact type of thinking goes directly SOUTH of what we as modern, individualistic, Americans precieve as our inherited rights to live our lives and not be "harrased" by a supreme being.

  I don't want to live by a set of "rules" by ANYBODY! That's how I feel. But my mind tells me there is more to life than what I want. With the gift of life I believe there is a responsibility to live with respect for others and their needs and to have a hope for the future. The Bible gives me that hope.

  As far as Jahovah commiting infanticide at Armageddon, well, I don't believe that will even be necessary. That's not to say I know Gods' mind. I don't! Only a fool thinks he knows the mind of God, and I'm no fool.

  I believe, (although some might think naively), that all who want a future WILL have a future. That includes those innocent babies God killed while in the horror of this system of things.

  I appologise for the longwindedness of this reply but I had to get my thoughts together, such as they are.

  CornerStone
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  Free2Bme

  If I believed in the Biblical God I would have no trouble believing He would slaughter innocent babies.Aren't there plenty of examples of this in the OT (such a heartwarming read..)?
  The blood-thirsty God of the OT was not moved by the wailing of babies.It was all for a just cause wasn't it?A kind of early example of Ethnic Cleansing.
  The tone was set right at the beginning of time. Why then are we so horrified at atrocities going on in the name of war in our time? Were we not created by a God of war, the same God who though apparantly not partial chose one race and spurred them on to destroy all other races?
  I can't understand how anyone can believe that the God of the scriptures "is love".
  So I can accept that He would kill kids.
  That's why I don't want to believe the Bible anymore and it's rather horrifying image of our creator.

  Free