"you can live forever" as an educatio...

by lisaBObeesa 4 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  lisaBObeesa

  Hello fellow ex-es,

  I took a class in Cultural Anthropology that touched on the subjects of language and doublespeak, loaded language, jargon etc. I set to reading the "Live Forever" book looking for these things. Found 'em.

  Then I took a class in Human Developement that touched on the development of Morality. I looked though the Live Forever book to see what stage of Morality it presented. I found it usually addressed morality at the Pre-Conventional level. (Thats the lowest level of morality and is used by most 6 year olds and it means they "do the right thing because they will be punished if they do the wrong thing.")

  I started to read a book on Critical Thinking (taking the class next quarter)....I looked through the "Live Forever" book for Fallacy........ummmm, guess what?

  Anyway, how ironic it is that my Live Forever book is now underlined and highlighted all over the place! I have notes in the margins and cross-references! What a great learning tool this book is!

  As some of you have so much more education, I bet you would have some great 'comments' if we were to have a 'meeting' and rip the book apart paragraph by paragraph, ooops, I mean 'study' the book.....

  What say ye? :)
• 

  RationalWitness

  Lisa,

  Sounds like you're on to something. Care to give us some examples from the book? Could prove enlightening to Redline et al, who have only been in 'the Truth' a few years. (Why, guess what ... there's an example of 'spin' right there!)

  Cheers,
  Rational
• 

  Thirdson

  Hi LisaB,

  I read all the publications with a different eye now. It is amazing I didn't see the publications that way until relatively recently.

  There are many assumptions made in the first chapter (Live Forever)all of which can be challenged. From para 10

  "Where is it that humans normally want to live forever?”

  Most people have a different notion of everlasting life encompassing everything from heaven to reincarnation. While few people want to die most don’t have a concept of living forever on Earth.

  From para 17

  Many persons who study world events say that a great change is in the making. For example, the editor of the Miami, USA, Herald , wrote: “Anyone with half a logical mind can put together he cataclysmic events of the past few years and see that the world is at a historic threshold….(the ubiquitous dot dot dots) It will change the way men live.”

  Of course, when was the quote written? No reference is given. Was it the 1950’s, 60’s, when? Remember this book was written before the Berlin wall came down, before the end of the USSR, before the invention of the PC before the widespread use of the Internet, before the Gulf War, before the International Space Station. All these events could qualify for “it will change the way men live”. (Can’t you tell by the use of the word “men” that the quote is quite old?)

  Other assumptions, Noah and Adam were real people, that Isaiah’s writings were meant to be literal, that civilization is going downhill, and that we must hurry.

  Lisa, you are right about studying this book, it is very educational. But so is the Watchtower mag. I read it with a much more careful and analytical mind now.

  Thirdson

  'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
• 

  lisaBObeesa

  OK PEOPLE, I KNOW THIS IS LONG, BUT I NEEDED TO DEFINE THE WORDS BEFORE TRANSLATING THE PARAGRAPHS. TELL ME IF YOU THINK MY TRANSLATION IS HONEST. BY HONEST I MEAN, DID I TRANSLATE THE PARAGRAPHS TO SAY WHAT THEY REALLY, HONESTLY MEAN.

  ALSO, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS AFTER READING THE TRANSLATION?

  Language

  Words used to mean “THINK” (used to tell the reader what to think, or what to think about while reading.):
  Recall, imagine, dwell on, keep in mind, consider, meditate, look at, take in, pray, realize, study, learn, notice, examination, understand, desire, ask yourself.

  Every place you see the above words in the “Live Forever” book you can cross them out and insert the word, “THINK” since that is what the writers really mean.

  Also, any good JW knows:

  “Gods laws” ( or requirements) = JW laws (or requirements)

  “God’s promises” = JW org's promises

  “Taking in knowledge of God” and “Reading about God and His promises” = reading the NWT, The WT and Awake, and going to meetings to hear talks.

  “sexual immorality” or “fornication” or “drugs” or “evil” or “bad” = being a NON-JW.

  “Strengthen your heart” = strengthen your ‘spiritual’ (JW) thinking .

  ‘spiritual’ = can’t think of the honest JW meaning….help??

  “being misled’ = having your thinking tricked. Being lied to.

  “God’s mouthpiece” = the JW ORG

  Consider this roughly translated paragraph from page 218 (P#4):
  “This does not mean, however, that a person has no control over his thinking about wanting to do non-JW actions. If you really want to, you can strengthen your thinking. But it is up to you to do this. Nobody else can win the fight for you. So, first of all, continue to read the NWT, WT and Awake, and go to meetings. Yet more is needed than simply reading and listening to the talks. The talks and literature must sink into your heart. You must come to have a deep feeling about what you are thinking about because you need to make yourself really want to act on it.

  (When I read this back to myself, I can just see a guy swinging a watch in front of my eyes saying, “You are getting veryyyy sleepy! Soon you will believe you are a duck!)

  On to paragraph #5:
  “But how can you think and feel the way we are telling you to think and feel about JW laws? You need to think, or think deeply about JW laws. For example, think: What difference does obeying the JW ORG really make? Then think about the lives of people who are non-JW, such as the 19 year old girl who wrote, I got a disease and now I can’t have children because I was a NON-JW”. (I included the implication here) It is truly sad to think about all the trouble that is caused when people disobey JW laws. A woman who was non-JW sadly said: “I had pain and emotional breakdown because I disobeyed (JW laws). I am suffering for that now.

  (The above paragraph is one of hundreds that use pre-conventional morality. Obey because you will be punished if you don’t)

  “Yet you will hear people say that being a non-JW is fun. But so-called fun is only temporary. Do not have your thinking tricked into a course of action that will take away your true and lasting happiness. Think of Moses who was raised as ‘the son of the daughter of Pharaoh.” He lived in the richness of the royal household there in ancient Egypt. However, the Bible says that, when he grew up, he chose the ‘not fun’ JW life instead of having fun being a non-JW. So it must have been fun to be non-JW in the royal household. Why then did Moses turn away from it?

  (Could ‘fun’ really mean ‘happy’? Please vote on this!! Also, once again pre-conventional morality….obey to get big reward)

  Comments?

  I know you all have prepared for this study and have underlined ….lets hear YOUR thoughts!!!! Where is the MS with the mic??
• 

  JanH

  lisa,

  Very interesting topic indeed. You're clearly on to something here.

  A guy who used to hang around some JW mailing lists, Joel Elliot, did a lot of work on JWs and language. He was never a JW, but knows more about them than any never-been-JW I ever met. Last I talked to him, he was completing his PhD in some humanities subject (on religion). Perhaps someone here knows Joel's wherabouts now?

  ‘spiritual’ = can’t think of the honest JW meaning….help??

  
  It means law-abiding or perhaps rule-abiding. JWs define spirituality as willingness and ability to follow both the written and unwritten laws of the JW community and religion. Actually, they even quantify it. One who uses more time in e.g. field service than another, is considered "more spiritual".

  One caveat with your project, though: Depending on the level you do this work, you should be aware there is no "true meaning" of words. Different social groups attach different meanings to these expressions. I think a professor would like you to really discuss the issue of social construction of language before making any jump to talk about "JW meaning" vs "real meaning" of language. JWs have obviously taken the expression from "mainstream language" and changed its meaning for its purposes. How and why this is done is very interesting.

  - Jan
  --
  Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]