"....AND ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED...."

by Mary 9 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Mary

  According to the Borg, the Jews of today no longer have a special relation with God, because they did not accept Jesus as the Messiah. In fact, they're viewed almost as bad as the Catholic Church in the WT literature. Only "spiritual Israel" counts. However, according to Romans chapter 11, it seems to indicate something else:

  1: I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin.
  2: God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the scripture says of Eli'jah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
  5: So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
  7: What then? Israel failed to obtain what it sought. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,
  8: as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that should not see and ears that should not hear, down to this very day."
  9: And David says, "Let their table become a snare and a trap, a pitfall and a retribution for them; let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see, and bend their backs for ever."
  11: So I ask, have they stumbled so as to fall? By no means! But through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.
  12: Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!
  15: For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?
  25: I want you to understand this mystery, brethren: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles come in, and so all Israel will be saved; as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob";
  27: "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

  It sounds to me as though it's saying, 'yes, they've been blinded for the time being, but the time will come when I will take their sins away.'

  Would this indicate that at some point, that the Jews would finally accept Jesus as the Messiah? Doesn't it sound as though they still might have God's favour? What do you think Israel's spiritual position is with Jehovah?
• 

  Carmel

  Mary,

  You might want to check on what's happening on Mt. Carmel.

  carmel
• 

  Carmel

  Whoops, forgot the link.

  http://www.tour-haifa.co.il/Eng/BahaiShrine/indexEng.phtml

  carmel
• 

  LittleToe

  Taking a theological stance on it, I'd say they are still under a "covenant of Works", which is apt to fail on their part.
  THey have the same opportunity to enter the "covenant of Grace", that gentiles do, IMHO.
• 

  little witch

  Mary,

  Indulge my parody for a moment.

  I invent an onion chopper, and expound its virtue as the sole and best onion chopper, there is no other like it.

  I don't have a patent on this device but I write alot about it.

  Several years later someone comes up with an idea relating to my onion chopper, but renames it and claims it is a much better cabbage chopper than the onion chopper.

  And the cabbage chopper is sooo much better an idea and novel, that any fool could see the error of onion chopping as opposed to cabbage chopping. And BTW, I have a unique name for my cabbage chopper that my fore-inventors neglected. My cabbage chopper is called a "Hober-Chopper"!

  Now if you don't have a Hober-Chopper, then you don't have the ORIGINAL.

  (never mind that I copied my invention on someone elses idea)

  My hober-Chopper is original and unique and should be called a Hober-Chopper, not by any other name.

  To add emphasis on the importance of my invention, I pronounce the original flawed and inferior. I take the lead in my invention and hereby copywrite and patent it.

  Don't bother trying to copy MY INVENTION! I was the first to the punch in making it my own!

  Now, I must go, much work is to be done in convincing the public that this was all my idea, and anyone who doesn't agree is an apostate, opposer of my grand idea.......
• 

  gitasatsangha

  It's just that longlasting wet dream of Christians to finally convert the one group of people they've never had much success of converting, the Jews. They've tried everything.. coercion, torture, free F-16s, watchtowers.. nothing. Nada. Zip. Bupkiss. Those darn Jews just don't wanna accept God Jr as their superhero savior, but ooooohhh if they would.. dayum. The 2000 year hardon of the Christians would finally be relieved, and then they could REALLY get to work on on Asia.
• 

  little witch

  The parody fits on several levels.

  Christian V Jew

  JW V Christian

  Muslim V Everybody else.
• 

  Dawn

  I believe God still has plans for Isreal and that Isreal still holds a special place.

  BTW - they have some pretty awesome jet fighters - have you ever seen one of the documentaries on their air force? Impressive!
• 

  Mary

  Dawn said: I believe God still has plans for Isreal and that Isreal still holds a special place.

  That's kind of the impression I get as well. Even in Revelation when it's talking about the 144,000, it specifically says that they're "named out of every tribe" of Israel. Of course, we know it's really talking about 144,000 Dubs.
• 

  bebu

  I believe God still has plans for Isreal and that Isreal still holds a special place.

  I think so, too. I think that the story of Joseph is intriguing--that his brothers came and bowed before him, not knowing what they were doing. And Joseph forgave them very generously. I think that whole story is probably a good indication of how God has worked, and will work, with Jews and Gentiles... thru Christ.

  Consider:

  Matt. 12:32

  Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come...

  (btw I think this applies for Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Unitarians... and Trinitarians!)

  This verse usually has everyone's attention on the HS... but it also strongly implies that simple theological incorrectness about Jesus--'speaking against him'--is forgivable in the next world. But the heart of the matter is the Holy Spirit, whom the pharisees called evil:

  MT 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard this (that Jesus had healed a blind and mute man), they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."

  When an individual considers the Holy Spirit 'Beelzebub', especially after witnessing a miracle of grace (!) one is in baaaaad shape.

  So, I do believe that "All Israel" would include the Jews (and anyone else) who misunderstand/speak against Christ, but still yearn to love God (HS).

  God knows who they are in their hearts!!

  bebu