Judas never received his Memorial invitation

by truthseeker 8 Replies latest jw friends

  • truthseeker
    truthseeker

    I don't have the book with me here at hand, but the Society says that Judas was never present at the Lord's evening meal. Perhaps Blondie will have the exact text, but in the Insight Book, under Judas Iscariot, the Society say that Luke's account is not in chronolgical order and this proves Judas was not there. They say it would not be fitting for Judas to partake of the emblems.

    But if you read Matthew, Mark and Luke's account, Judas is present there, and even asks Jesus if he is guilty of betraying him.

    John's account reads slightly differently, but after the meal, Jesus washes the disciples feet, including Judas, and then tells Judas to "get done quickly" whatever it is he is going to do.

    Let's look at all four accounts

    Matthew 26

    17 (20) Now on the first day of (21) Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the Passover?"
    18 And He said, "Go into the city to (22) a certain man, and say to him, 'The Teacher says, " (23) My time is near; I am to keep the Passover at your house with My disciples."'"
    19 The disciples did as Jesus had directed them; and they prepared the Passover.


    The Last Passover

    20 (24) Now when evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the twelve disciples.
    21 As they were eating, He said, " (25) Truly I say to you that one of you will betray Me."
    22 Being deeply grieved, they each one began to say to Him, "Surely not I, Lord?"
    23 And He answered, " (26) He who dipped his hand with Me in the bowl is the one who will betray Me.
    24 "The Son of Man is to go, (27) just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! (28) It would have been good for that man if he had not been born."
    25 And (29) Judas, who was betraying Him, said, "Surely it is not I, (30) Rabbi?" Jesus said to him, " (31) You have said it yourself."


    The Lord's Supper Instituted

    26 (32) While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and (33) after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."
    27 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you;
    28 for (34) this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for (35) many for forgiveness of sins.
    29 "But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom."
    30 (36) After singing a hymn, they went out to (37) the Mount of Olives.

    Here, Judas has to be present at the evening meal, otherwise Jesus couldn't have said that one of his disciples would betray him. Also, the scripture does state that Jesus was reclining with the twelve disciples. There is no mention of Judas leaving at this time.

    Mark 14

    The Last Passover 12 (12) On the first day of (13) Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb was being (14) sacrificed, His disciples said to Him, "Where do You want us to go and prepare for You to eat the Passover?"
    13 And He sent two of His disciples and said to them, "Go into the city, and a man will meet you carrying a pitcher of water; follow him;
    14 and wherever he enters, say to the owner of the house, 'The Teacher says, "Where is My (15) guest room in which I may eat the Passover with My disciples?"'
    15 "And he himself will show you a large upper room furnished and ready; prepare for us there."
    16 The disciples went out and came to the city, and found it just as He had told them; and they prepared the Passover.
    17 (16) When it was evening He came with the twelve.
    18 As they were reclining at the table and eating, Jesus said, "Truly I say to you that one of you will betray Me--one who is eating with Me." 19 They began to be grieved and to say to Him one by one, "Surely not I?"
    20 And He said to them, "It is one of the twelve, one who dips with Me in the bowl. 21 "For the Son of Man is to go just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born."


    The Lord's Supper

    22 (17) While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a (18) blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, "Take it; this is My body."
    23 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it.
    24 And He said to them, "This is My (19) blood of the (20) covenant, which is poured out for many.
    25 "Truly I say to you, I will never again drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God."
    26 (21) After singing a hymn, they went out to (22) the Mount of Olives.


    Again, all twelve are here, and Jesus is addressing all 12 where he says, "It is one of the twelve, one who dips with Me in the bowl."

    Luke

    The Lord's Supper

    14 (10) When the hour had come, He reclined at the table, and (11) the apostles with Him.
    15 And He said to them, "I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer;
    16 for I say to you, I shall never again eat it (12) until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God."
    17 (13) And when He had taken a cup and (14) given thanks, He said, "Take this and share it among yourselves;
    18 for (15) I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes."
    19 And when He had taken some bread and (16) given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."
    20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is (17) poured out for you is the (18) new covenant in My blood.

    21 " (19) But behold, the hand of the one betraying Me is with Mine on the table. 22 "For indeed, the Son of Man is going (20) as it has been determined; but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed!"
    23 And they began to discuss among themselves which one of them it might be who was going to do this thing.

    Once again, Jesus would not have said, "But behold, the hand of the one betraying Me is with Mine on the table. " straight after he did the bread and wine if Judas had not been there.

    Finally we get to John....

    John

    The Lord's Supper 1 Now before the Feast of (1) the Passover, Jesus knowing that (2) His hour had come that He would depart out of this world (3) to the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end.
    2 During supper, (4) the devil having already put into the heart of (5) Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray Him,
    3 Jesus, (6) knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that (7) He had come forth from God and was going back to God,
    4 got up from supper, and laid aside His garments; and taking a towel, He (8) girded Himself.


    Jesus Washes the Disciples' Feet

    5 Then He poured water into the basin, and began to (9) wash the disciples' feet and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded.
    6 So He came to Simon Peter. He said to Him, "Lord, do You wash my feet?"
    7 Jesus answered and said to him, "What I do you do not realize now, but you will understand (10) hereafter."
    8 Peter said to Him, "Never shall You wash my feet!" Jesus answered him, " (11) If I do not wash you, (12) you have no part with Me."
    9 Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head."
    10 Jesus said to him, "He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and (13) you are clean, but not all of you."
    11 For (14) He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, "Not all of you are clean." 12 So when He had washed their feet, and (15) taken His garments and reclined at the table again, He said to them, "Do you know what I have done to you?
    13 "You call Me (16) Teacher and (17) Lord; and you are right, for so I am.
    14 "If I then, (18) the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet.
    15 "For I gave you (19) an example that you also should do as I did to you.
    16 "Truly, truly, I say to you, (20) a slave is not greater than his master, nor is (21) one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.
    17 "If you know these things, you are (22) blessed if you do them.
    18 " (23) I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have (24) chosen; but it is (25) that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ' (26) HE WHO EATS MY BREAD HAS LIFTED UP HIS HEEL AGAINST ME.'
    19 "From now on (27) I am telling you before it comes to pass, so that when it does occur, you may believe that (28) I am He.
    20 "Truly, truly, I say to you, (29) he who receives whomever I send receives Me; and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me."


    Jesus Predicts His Betrayal

    21 When Jesus had said this, He (30) became troubled in spirit, and testified and said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, that (31) one of you will betray Me."
    22 The disciples began looking at one another, (32) at a loss to know of which one He was speaking.
    23 There was reclining on (33) Jesus' bosom one of His disciples, (34) whom Jesus loved.
    24 So Simon Peter gestured to him, and said to him, "Tell us who it is of whom He is speaking."
    25 He, (35) leaning back thus on Jesus' bosom, said to Him, "Lord, who is it?"
    26 Jesus then answered, "That is the one for whom I shall dip the morsel and give it to him." So when He had dipped the morsel, He took and gave it to Judas, (36) the son of Simon Iscariot.
    27 After the morsel, (37) Satan then (38) entered into him. Therefore Jesus said to him, "What you do, do quickly."
    28 Now no one of those reclining at the table knew for what purpose He had said this to him.

    29 For some were supposing, because Judas (39) had the money box, that Jesus was saying to him, "Buy the things we have need of (40) for the feast"; or else, that he should (41) give something to the poor.
    30 So after receiving the morsel he went out immediately; and (42) it was night.

    This passage says that Jesus, " 4 got up from supper, and laid aside His garments; and taking a towel, He (8) girded Himself." and then he washed the feet of the disciples. So, the Lord's evening meal had evidently ended, although we did have a quick snack afterwards, as Jesus identifies his betrayer as, ""That is the one for whom I shall dip the morsel and give it to him." After this point, Judas left.

    If you have the insight book, notice that the Society says that God's word is not in chronological order!! I have no idea why they would even do this.

    All scriptures taken from http://bible.gospelcom.net/

  • simplesally
    simplesally

    Well, I think the Society admits he was there for part of the meal. Its just the part where Jesus instituted the covenant that the Society says that Judas took his leave. After Jesus told him to go do what he was going to do......then Jesus would have instituted the New Covenant.

  • English Patient
    English Patient

    Hi.

    Somewhere in the Greatest Man book, there is a picture of the evening meal and Judas is present.

  • Inkie
    Inkie

    And Luke 1:3 says that he, Luke, wrote his account in logical (or chronological, see footnote in reference bible) order. Go figure!

  • Mary
    Mary

    My understanding is that they've always acknowledged that Judas was there at the Supper, but they say he left before Jesus passed the bread and wine around...........it's hard to say as the bible doesn't say one way or another, but obviously Judas left the group at some point, because he re-appears with the army officers while Jesus and the others are in the Garden of Gethsemane, and "betrays him with a kiss."

    In the long run, it doesn't matter if Judas took the emblems or not. Even if he did, he forfeited his place in the Kingdom, the moment he betrayed Jesus.

  • undercover
    undercover

    The WTS paints that evening as having two distinct meals. First they ate the Passover meal. Then later (after Judas left) Jesus inaugurated the new and improved meal, the Lord's Evening Meal.

    But when I read the accounts, I do not see two distinct events. I see one meal and while eating this meal, Jesus uses the bread and wine to represent his body and blood. There's no proof that Judas left before the bread and wine sampling, in fact, Luke says he was there. The other Gospels are a little more vague but they say things like, "...while eating..." or "...during the meal...".

    The WTS is grasping at straws trying to bolster their belief that only the "anointed" can partake of the bread and wine. If Judas was present at the partaking of the bread and wine, it shoots that belief and practice down in flames.

  • Carmel
    Carmel

    Was it in fact a betrayal or simply carrying out a comand by Jesus? It's clear he was remorseful, but if you were in his position and was told to go "do it" would you refuse?

    \carm

  • Gadget
    Gadget

    I had this subject last year after the memorial, as the ushers would not pass me the bread and the wine. The reason given to me by an elder afterwards was that from a question from readers in the 50s Judas was not offered the emblems, and so df'd people, the judas class, should not be offered them either. He wasn't happy when I asked him why they followed the 50s article but ignored the 2 articled from the 1970s that specifically said that the emblems should be offered to ALL in attendance.......

    ***

    w56 6/15 p. 383 Questions from Readers ***

    ?

    Speaking of those who partake of the Lord?s evening meal unworthily, the January 15, 1956, Watchtower said on page 60, paragraph 18: "So let him benefit by the corrective, disciplinary judgment that Jehovah gives him. Let him discern what he himself is, and reform. If he has been at fault, yet he should obey the command and eat the Lord?s evening meal, but do so discerning the Lord?s sacrificed body and asking forgiveness for his sin. Then let this celebration strengthen him to follow Christ?s steps more closely during the coming year." Does this mean a disfellowshiped person should partake of the loaf and wine at the Lord?s evening meal??M. P., Germany.

    This has no reference to persons that are in a disfellowshiped condition, but to only those who are continuing in the body of Christ but who are yet subject to sin and who therefore commit sins for which the sacrifice of Christ provides the basis for forgiveness. A disfellowshiped person is no member of Jehovah?s congregation and may not be served the emblems by those serving at the celebration of the Lord?s evening meal. Jesus did not serve Judas the emblems but sent him out of the house before instituting the Lord?s evening meal.?John 13:21-31; Matt. 26:20-25; Mark 14:10-21.

    Question from Readers, W56 6/15 pg383

    If a disfellowshiped person desires to partake of the Lord?s evening meal he should show full repentance by going to the service committee of the congregation from which he has been disfellowshiped and let them examine him as to the sincerity of his repentance and his willingness to be put on probation. If he satisfies this service committee, then they may reinstate him and put him on a period of probation, and they will so advise the congregation. If he shows good deportment during the time of his probation and up to the celebration of the Lord?s evening meal, then he may be served the emblems at the celebration with sincere appreciation of God?s forgiveness through the things symbolized by the emblems. Then his participation in the Lord?s evening meal should strengthen him to continue on conducting himself properly through the rest of his probation period and onward after it has ended and the reinstatement is full and complete, no longer qualified by any probationary restraints.

  • Gadget
    Gadget

    From the insight book.....................

    Last

    Night With Jesus. In spite of having turned against Christ, Judas continued to associate with him. He gathered with Jesus and the apostles on Nisan 14, 33 C.E., for the celebration of the Passover. While the Passover meal was in process Jesus ministered to the apostles, humbly washing their feet. Hypocritical Judas allowed Jesus to do that to him. But Jesus said, "Not all of you are clean." (Joh 13:2-5, 11) He also stated that one of the apostles there at the table would betray him. Perhaps so as not to appear guilty, Judas asked if he was the one. As a further identification, Jesus gave Judas a morsel and told him to do quickly what he was doing.?Mt 26:21-25; Mr 14:18-21; Lu 22:21-23; Joh 13:21-30.

    Immediately

    Judas left the group. A comparison of Matthew 26:20-29 with John 13:21-30 indicates that he departed before Jesus instituted the celebration of the Lord?s Evening Meal. Luke?s presentation of this incident evidently is not in strict chronological order, for Judas had definitely left by the time Christ commended the group for having stuck with him; that would not fit Judas, nor would he have been taken into the "covenant . . . for a kingdom."?Lu 22:19-30.

    Judas later found Jesus together with the faithful apostles in the garden of Gethsemane, a place the betrayer knew well, for they had met there before. He led a great crowd, including Roman soldiers and a military commander. The mob had clubs and swords as well as torches and lamps, which they would need if clouds covered the full moon or if Jesus was in the shadows. The Romans probably would not recognize Jesus, so, according to a prearranged sign, Judas greeted Christ and in an act of hypocrisy "kissed him very tenderly," thus identifying him. (Mt 26:47-49; Joh 18:2-12) Later Judas felt the enormity of his guilt. In the morning he attempted to return the 30 pieces of silver, but the chief priests refused to take them back. Finally, Judas threw the money into the temple.?Mt 27:1-5.

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