Would you have to lie to be reinstated if DF'd for something you didn't do?

True North

If a JW was disfellowshipped for something they didn't do -- perhaps as the result of false or mistaken accusations -- would they have to lie by "admitting" the "sin" to get reinstated. Otherwise, if they refused to admit it, wouldn't they be considered unrepentant? Seems like it could be a sort of Catch 22.

avishai

that's a great question

Brother Beyond

If a JW was disfellowshipped for something they didn't do -- perhaps as the result of false or mistaken accusations -- would they have to lie by "admitting" the "sin" to get reinstated?

Ofcourse they would not lie!! Lying is wicked and from the devil, also liars will not inherit gods kingingdom! What they would have to do is to tell the 'truth', and ofcourse it would be the 'absolute truth' as only JW's have that.

However they would need to be careful to eliminate any details of truth that did not fit the purpose trying to be achieved. If this results in changing the facts, do not feel bad about this, your concience may be eased by declaring it part of our spiritual warfare! Please remember that if you do have to alter the facts you are not guilty of lying, because after all liars will not inherit gods kingingdom! There is after all an established presidence for altering factual truth and substituting "spiritual truth" which can be based on inacuracies so long as it fits the point that is being made! (607BCE !!)

So if any of you find yourself in this difficult position please remember not confuse absolute truth with 'spiritual truth', and what ever you do do not let simple facts get in the way of acheiving your goal!!

Remember the rule-: Facts can be altered but 'the truth' must go on!!

BB

avengers

Good question!

I don't have an answer that clearly fits, yet I would like to comment if you don't mind.

I became a dubb in 1969. Baptized and gung ho. For me it was the ultimate answer. I could realize all of my dreams and build into eternity. Who in their right mind wouldn't want to do that? It's like the ultimate version of Simcity, but then in real. Nothing more fun than that, don't you agree? So I went for it, striving to be an elder, pioneering, nothing was too much for me as long as it was for Jehovah.

Why am I telling you this? To get into a dubbs mind!. A dedicated Witness will do anything as long as he or she thinks it's for Jehovah.

I'll illustrate. In 1970 I wanted to pioneer. 1975 was right around the corner so I thought if I do the best there is for mankind; to tell them about the new system; I could realize my dreams in a way which would be much better then to do it in this system. So I put my plans on hold till the new system of things. My dream was to become an engineer, to build, and think up new things. Which is great and which better way to do this when you have eternity and infinite possibilities. And there I went! Let's pioneer.

I approached the elders: "Hey guys I wanna serve Jehovah better. I want to apply for pioneer."
So I filled in the necessary forms.
Too bad I don't have the forms in my possession, the ones I had to fill in, in order to be approved.
The thing about this form was, and I know this specifically, was one question on this form and it still bothers me until this day.
I read your thread and I thought this is a chance to bring it into the open.

The question in mind was this one: "Do you believe that everything the Society teaches is true?"
The older ones who applied in those days might remember this.

If you answer "no" then your application won't be approved and you will not be able to join the rank of the pioneers.
Then you can't do as much for Jehovah as you want to.
You wanna know something? I answered "yes". (even in those days I could not believe everything they said was true. They had just before changed the "secular authority" matter.)
I'm not the kind of person who lies and cheats. Never was. (now that I look back I can see what happened)
A few years later, it could even have been a few months later, this question was scratched.

What I'm trying to make clear, (and I'm always having a hard time doing that) is, they tricked me into lying. This was 34 years ago and it still bothers me that I lied. (This was probably the beginning of my Crisis of Conscience.) Yet I wanted my dreams to become reality, so I became pioneer and got Jehovah's blessing. Yeah right. The beginning of a nightmare.

It was the Watchtower who taught me to lie. I can imagine that someone wanting to serve Jehovah with all his or her heart will do anything, even lie, as long as it is for Jehovah.

At this moment after 30 years of Borg and having been de-assimilated for 5 years I realize exactly how this happened.
But for someone who is in the Borg they cannot see it. The Borg will lie. It's in their nature.

Anyway this is what happened in my life. I have not given up my dreams. Engineering is my dream, and I'm realizing it only now without the Borg.

It's a shame how this religion which claims to help people become better persons, better husbands, better wives, better kids, make people honest, is in reality doing the exact opposite.

my 0,002 cents.

Andy.

five_crew

When my brother (who was a witness) wanted to divorce his wife (also one) he had to lie to get df'd. He had to tell them he cheated on her, get df'd just to get his divorce. In actuality, she cheated on him and was abusive. How is this right.

AuSet

What???

As a loyal JW, you wouldn't have to lie because you would actually BELIEVE you committed the sin after a certain period of time. What with all the constant rewriting or erasing of history, brainwashing, judicial committee meetings that go on. So then you would believe that you were telling the truth when it came to being repentant, and reinstated.

1984

blondie

No, God knows I didn't do it and in the end that is what matters. The WTS is just a group of imperfect humans with no authority to execute (or resurrect) anyone. Thank God.

Blondie

yxl1

In my case, yes. When I was 17, I worked in a clothes shop on a saturday along with 3 sisters from my congregation. Sat at a table with 3 non-witness collegues during lunch, one of the sisters, an elders daughter entered the lunchroom to see a burning cigarette in the ashtray. For reasons unknown to me, she decided first to inform a few pioneer sisters that she had seen me smoking, and then tell the elders. I spent most of the evening defending my innocence before 3 elders (one of whom is my father-in-law). I was however "let off", but warned that the only reason I wasnt DF'ed was because there was only one eyewitness (They refused to telephone the non-witness collegues who I shared lunch with)

Fast forward 3 months and I'm infront of the same three elders being accused of smoking again. Apparently my jw-neighbour had seen me smoking outside the front of my house. Funny how the time she "saw"me, I was 3 miles away seeing my girlfriend, and can only assume she had spotted my sister having a crafty one. Even though this information was told to the elders, they were happy that they now had their "two eyewittnesses" and I was DF'ed. I was also told that I had every right to appeal, but if it failed, it would be almost impossible for me to be reinstated.

Fast forward 9 months, and I've attended every meeting (except book studies). My letter of reinstation is sent to the PO, and a week later I'm before the same three elders. They then tell me that the only way I can be reinstated is if "you confess before Jehovah, that you did smoke on both occations" I lied and told them I smoked on both occations. The following thursday it was announced that I was reinstated.

yxl1

Mary

Sounds familiar. I knew a brother years ago who got DF'd for smoking even though he'd never smoked in his life. Two pioneer sisters (who's word obviously couldn't be questioned ) both told the elders that they saw this brother (who worked in construction) with a cigarette in his hand on several different occasions and even saw him put it in his mouth. The elders questioned him a couple of times, he vigorously denied it, but seeing as they had the ever-important "two eye-witnesses", and seeing as he was obviously unrepentant by refusing to admit his error, he was disfellowshipped. Six months later, one of the elders was out in service with one of the pioneer sisters and they saw him working. The sister quickly pointed out that, see, he had a cigarette in his hand which he then tucked up on his ear. The elder realized that this was not a cigarette, it was a freakin' white pencil that he was using while working.

Even so, it took them another week to approach him and another 2 weeks to re-instate him. Nice eh?

Those two pioneers never even apologized to him, for their causing his so much stress and wrongfully accuse him.

Would you have to lie to be reinstated if DF'd for something you didn't do?

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