? About Paraclete

by Carmel 5 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Carmel

  Since its been over four decades since I was a "witness" I don't recall what the JW thinking was concerning the Johannine paraclete passages, JN 14:16,26, 15:26 and 16:7. I was in a study class last evening and was asked about the JW beliefs. I understand that most christians accept the rendition that these promises were fulfilled at Penticost, but I don't remember these scriptures playing much of a role for JW doctrin as they believed Jesus had already "returned" but not in the "flesh".

  Anyone can help?

  carmel
• 

  waiting

  Hey Carmel,

  You were in a study class??? Cool.

  Real early right now and don't have the foggiest notion of what you're talking about. Have to look it up.

  Good to hear from you.

  waiting
• 

  Carmel

  Hi there spring chicken. Whatcha doing up so early?

  Re: the study class, we have a group of a dozen or so that meet every two weeks and discuss one of many scholarly papers about various subjects. This last week was on the Johanine promises of the "return" of the Paraclete (comforter, councelor, as well as other translations). In early christianity the Comforter was personified, but by the second century when no "return" appeared it was rationalized away as being the event of Pentacost, much like the 1844 disappointment of Miller and friends and the 1914 fiasco of Russell. Most christians consider the "comforter" to be the "holy spirit" or the third person of the trinity, or both.

  For the life of me, I couldn't remember what the witnesses thought about it since they profess a Parousa or "presence" begining in 1874...whoops 1914.

  good to see you're fittin in over at pioneeroutrage!

  carmel
• 

  waiting

  Hey Carmel,

  ***sigh****ok****Johannine paraclete passages, JN 14:16,26, 15:26 and 16:7.

  John 14:16 and I will request the Father and he will give YOU another helper to be with YOU forever,

  John 14:26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach YOU all things and bring back to YOUR minds all the things I told YOU.

  John 15:26 When the helper arrives that I will send YOU from the Father, the spirit of the truth, which proceeds from the Father, that one will bear witness about me,

  John 16:7 Nevertheless, I am telling you the truth. It is for YOUR benefit I am going away. For if I do not go away, the helper will by no means come to you; but if I do go my way, I will send him to YOU. NWT

  the "comforter" to be the "holy spirit"

  As a jw, that is my understanding of the teaching also. When Jesus went up to Heaven, as a spirit, he told his followers these words to encourage them that they would not be left alone.

  At Pentacost, in the upper room, the Holy Spirit (not Third Person of Trinity, but God's active force) was given to them by Jehovah. The form of the tongues above each individual head was to show them the invisible spirit was actually there.

  Jehovah's active force, or holy spirit, has not left his true believers through the centuries.

  what the witnesses thought about it since they profess a Parousa or "presence" begining in 1874...whoops 1914.

  Jesus, however, returned to Heaven to sit at the right hand side of his father until he, Michael, stood up which indicated taking power. Then "war raged in the heavens and Michael the Archangel threw Satan and his demons down to the earth." (Rev) Jesus took over active rulership in the Heavens as well as his domain on the earth.

  Still in heaven, he accepted power from his Father and Jesus's "presence" or "parousa" began in 1914 on the earth. At the time of his invisible presence (return to other persons), Jesus began ruling his people on the earth, through the ever brighter & continually newer light only-channel, the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class, aka Governing Body, which rules the rank and file of Jehovah's Witnesses.

  It is Jehovah's spirit, albeit sent by Jesus, according to the words of John. But Jesus stayed in the Heavens after ascending as a spirit. Jehovah's spirit has always been available to whomever Jehovah chooses on the earth.

  However, jw's don't really relate the scriptures of John about the "helper" to Jesus' "presence" in 1914, to my knowledge.

  This may not be totally accurate, but it is my understanding of the two separate events. I never said they made, or did not make, sense.

  waiting

  ps. enjoying using my e-mail forum

  Edited by - waiting on 3 August 2000 18:38:33
• 

  Carmel

  Thanks for the come back Waiting. I've always had trouble with the concept that the Christ could be "spiritually absent". The 1914 doctrin would infer that His "spiritual presence" indicates that it would have been "absent" for 1850 year. Good thing for your final disclaimer!

  cheers,

  carmel
• 

  waiting

  Hey Carmel,

  Jesus/Michael was not absent. He was sitting. Big difference - to some (another disclaimer.)

  waiting