questions from a newbie!

by lfwalli 9 Replies latest jw friends

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  lfwalli

  Ok I'm too impatient to look through all the old posts..so hear me out.

  I'm studying with witnesses, but not yet baptized. I was raised around the truth.

  I've looked through some of the old posts and I have heard alot about the shunning of former "members". I've been told that this is not a scriptural practice. Now I looked up some of the societies info, 1 cor 5:11&13. Can someone explain how this type of shunning is not supported by these scriptures and what does the bible support by ways of proper discipline by unrepentant wrongdoers. Or is unrepentant wrongdoing something that is based on interpretation? Like...who says it's wrongdoing?

  If I'm not making my question clear, sorry (I feel like a virgin at this.)
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  ellderwho

  Ifwalli,

  You will chase their "reasonings" with no results, and frustrations.

  Consider this;

  In Jw mindset the Bible is a closed book.

  1. A answer given is the Orgs interpetation of what scripture is saying.

  2. When the above is exhausted, you will wind up with a philosphical answer. (very dangerous)

  3. If you dont question things now, you CAN NOT question once your in.

  E.
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  Steve Lowry

  Ok, I?m not gonna go look up scripture to attack their claim about shunning. Don?t need to. Their claim is as if it doesn?t really exist (at least this is the position of most JW?s). I have been dealing with former JW?s for more than a decade and I can tell you that shunning is alive and well among the JW population. It is after all just a very simple but effective way of protecting the ?flock? from unwanted outside influences. Don?t buy into the whole, ?its an act of love? thing. No it isn?t, it?s a ?self preservation? thing for the Watchtower Society. Look, there?s no graceful way to leave the Watchtower Society religion of Jehovah?s Witnesses. Once you leave, any friendships you may have developed with JW?s will be gone. Once they have determined you won?t be coming back, you will be disenfranchised.

  If you continue on the path you have selected and you follow it to its natural conclusion (getting baptized as a JW) then when the day comes that you leave (and for any reason), then you?ll understood what I?m telling you today.
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  Jonty Parkin

  Hi Ifwalli.

  I was a witness for 20 years. I was an elder for the last 10 years of that. I say this, not to impress you, but merely to let you know that I am speaking from personal experience, not hearsay. Furthermore, I do not hate the witnesses, and I have no axe to grind with them individually.

  I used to think that the JW's were magnificent, because they had an "answer" for everything. However, to the mind of a rational, free-thinking man, any answer can be questioned, if one has reservations concerning its validity. And you will soon find (if you have not already done so), that you cannot question their answers. The reasons for this are:

  • They are not "answers", merely stock responses. They will give you a book that tells you what to say (and therefore what to think).
  • Freedom of thought and opinion is not permitted. You may only think and say what the WT publications authorise you to say.

  But you know what the really scary thing is? They even have an "answer " for this too! Anyone who "questions" or dared hold a different opinion, are accused of being "disloyal to Jehovah's visible organisation".

  Try it, and you will soon find out just how long their patience with you holds out!

  Later, when (or if) you go, they will simply forget you existed, rub their hands in self-righteous satisfaction and say "oh well, he obviously never loved Jehovah in the first place."

  I hope you can see that I have said nothing derogatory or insulting about the JW's or their beliefs. I am simply advising you as to what you can expect to happen if you continue.

  There are alternatives, my friend.

  Jonty
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  Frannie Banannie

  Ifwalli, a prime example of why the JWs' practice of shunning is highly questionable as a righteous act of love, even in light of the scriptures at I Cor. 5: 11-13, is seen when examining Jesus' DEEDS.....For example, take the scriptures concerning Jesus rescuing the condemned adulteress in John 8. Her peers had condemned her to death by stoning and were self-righteously attempting to carry out the heinous act when Jesus stepped in and reminded them that they were sinners, too, and therefore UNQUALIFIED to judge another sinner. Of course, the NWT highlights the scriptures concerning this particular act of mercy on Jesus' part in FINE, SMALL PRINT....why?....for the same reason, they've NEVER referenced it in ANY of their WT/Awake articles as an example of how true Christians should behave toward one another when mistakes are discovered. (Believe me, I had my own bound volumes of the WT and Awake going back to the 20's and it wasn't in ANY of them.) The reason is because they veil their love of self-righteous judgment against others with the word love. There is actually a smattering of small merciful acts on the parts of elders scattered thinly throughout the org, but on the whole, they are merciless. Disfellowshipping/disassociation and the resultant shunning is the doctrinal equivalent of being stoned to death.
  

  Frannie B
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  Jonty Parkin

  "Shunning is the doctrinal equivalent of being stoned to death."

  Frannie, That is an excellently incisive and accurate analogy! Go to the top of the class!

  Jonty
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  lovinlife

  Ifwalli, Jw shunning is a somewhat different thing than what is referred to in the Bible once you have experienced it. There are many here who have, myself included. You may feel that it is understandable not to associate with someone who has chosen a lifestyle that renounces Christ--that is what the JWs like to put out there. However, investigate the many reasons why Jws will in fact disfellowship someone. You will find that there are many reasons that do not refer to "denouncing Christ" or anything like that. You will find that one of the many varied reasons for disfellowshipping can be as simple as not following the counsel of an elder in the congregation (an imperfect man, by the way), but for them, this constitutes your disobeying the organization that they say Jehovah is using today.

  Your coming here is a very good way to find out what the experience of shunning is really like. I can tell you that I am disfellowshipped and shunned because when my ex-husband (and elder) was stalking me, yes, really stalking me, and the police could not catch him and he would come at night and frighten me, I finally got desperate. I was afraid for my safety since I had been beaten by him before. So I asked a friend to stay with me--a man. Well, since I had a man overnight in my house, it was assumed that I was being unfaithful to the man I left 8 years earlier for beating and abusing me. These elders all knew the story of my life with him. I was not unfaithful to him since I could not trust any man to treat me well at that time. My friend slept on my couch by the front door to protect me. As it turns out, the ex did come that night and I was totally grateful that his presence scared the ex away from banging on the door at all different hours of the night. Because that man was in my house, I was dragged into a judicial hearing and then, no matter what I said, I was disfellowshipped for being an unrepentant wrongdoer because I could not say that I was sorry that I had that man there to protect me. You may think that this is a far fetched story, but it is not. I have the many police reports to prove the beatings and stalkings.

  If you want to read the extent of my shunning from my family, read my post from yesterday about disfellowshipping. All I can say is be very careful about committing to this religion because you will find it very painful to get out. I'm so glad you are here asking questions. Never feel shy about asking anything, we are here to help!
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  jgnat

  Everything you ever wanted to know about Disfellowshipping.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/35751/1.ashx

  Now, as a sincere student, I encourage you to thoroughly research the claims of the WTBTS before you sign up. Jehovah expects nothing less.
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  lisaBObeesa

  If I recall correctly, one of the scriptures JWs use to support shunning says to treat the sinner ?as a man of the nations.? It does not say to not speak to them, not say hello, not eat with them, not let them sit next to you at the kingdom hall, not call to see if they are ok and it does not say to treat them like they are not there at all, like they are dead.

  Then the JWs also use another scripture that says something about ?not even saying a greeting to such a one.? But that scripture (indeed the whole chapter it comes from if I remember correctly) is talking about the antichrist. So this scripture is not about regular ?ol sinners like smokers, adulterers, Christmas celebrators, and such. It is talking about the antichrist.

  There is no place in the Bible that says Christians should treat people the way JWs treat people who are DF.
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  allpoweredup

  Note the word used by Paul is majority but not everyone, which means there were some who didn't shun a wrongdoer:

  6 The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient for him."

  So not everyone followed Paul's previous request that they shun the wrongdoer in Corinth, they were not in anyway scolded or punished for not doing what he had said, and this shows that although he had been given authority by some of the congregations to "order" Timothy and other workers to do this and that, he did not have dictatorial powers to order every Christian to shun a person. He could suggest it but each was left to his or her own conscience to decide if to do so. Galatians says we are all equals before God, all imperfect humans who would not be resurrected except for God's gracious kindness and the sacrifice His son made of his human life.