The ``Four Presidents" Book: Impressions, Anyone?

by Room 215 7 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Room 215

  I've just finished reading the ``Four Presidents" book and am ambivalent about it. Much of it strikes me as illuminating if overly anecdotal; its impact is for me vitiated by (1) the paucity of documentation and (2) the anonymity of its author and contributors, however sympathetic I am to their reasons. Perhaps the most valuable part of the book are the notes and their copious references in early JW literature to bizarre, now-discredited beliefs.

  While much of it rings true and is consonant with my first-hand experiences, I find the allegations of incidents in which young Bethel boys engaged in late-night homosexual limousine liaisons with wealthy New Yorkers hard to believe (these were alleged to have occurred at a time when I was there at Bethel, and would almost certainly have seen or heard of any such via the ``grapevine" to which I was as well connected as anyone).

  Readers out there, what are your impressions?
• 

  ozziepost

  G'day Roomie,

  I got a copy of this book soon after it was published, courtesy of Randy's superlative Freeminds org. and recommend it for these reasons:

  1. It's 'easy to use' style, when speaking with doubting dubs.

  2. It refers extensively to the "master" books COC and ISOCF.

  3. It adds other viewpoints.

  It's true that some events are uncorroborated and this may be a negative, but overall, I'd include it with a package of good reads for the ex-dub, the doubting dub, well, just about anybody really!

  BTW this was reviewed in a couple of threads a few months ago.

  Cheers, Ozzie
• 

  Joyzabel

  Hey Room 215,

  I find the allegations of incidents in which young Bethel boys engaged in late-night homosexual limousine liaisons with wealthy New Yorkers hard to believe (these were alleged to have occurred at a time when I was there at Bethel, and would almost certainly have seen or heard of any such via the ``grapevine" to which I was as well connected as anyone).

  I agree. In fact when hubby was reading that section he said he NEVER saw that and he was there at the same time, too. Oh well, who knows what when on and where.

  Oh well. Wish the author didn't feel the need for anonymity, we are still trying to figure out who it is.

  Joy
• 

  outbutnotdown

  I haven't read it yet but I hope it is easier reading than Room 215's post was.

  Brad (as he goes to grab a dictionary to search for some of 215's BIG words..... lol)
• 

  scholar

  Room 215

  I found the book on the Four Presidents very interesting but having anonymous sources renders the publication a mere curiosity. I was somewhat surprised how little was said concerning Fred Franz and his scholarly abilities and influence, the rest was simply familiar knowledge. The Mystery doctrine was and is fascinating but hereagain more could have been said.

  Overall it is a must read book but really says little of any significance.

  scholar

  BA MA Studies in Religion
• 

  Justin

  I thought the "Four Presidents" book was invaluable in providing a systematic listing of changes in doctrine over the years. This, of course, has been used in the past as a critique of the WT, but I find that it is helpful in studying the older literature to be able to compare the old beliefs with the doctrines that later developed.

  However, I felt there was an unnecessary emphasis on the Mystery Doctrine. This was the belief that Jesus and the 144,000 collectively constitute the Christ, and that titles used for Jesus alone in conventional Christianity actually apply to the entire anointed class, such as: the Prophet like Moses, the High Priest, the Eternal Father, etc. However, the Mystery Doctrine was expounded in the first volume of Studies in the Scriptures, titled The Divine Plan of the Ages. This was the "starter volume," and its Chapter 5 was: "The Hidden Mystery." So it's just "old truth" that was forgotten when the Society turned its attention to the earthly class.

  See http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbnon/htdb0072.htm for the appropriate chapter in The Divine Plan.
• 

  Dogpatch

  The limo thing was a little hard to believe, but a lot is sheltered fom other Bethelites. I was at Bethel from 1974 to 1980 and was a floor overseer in the pressroom (which no lnoger exists according to Mike Musto), and never saw evidence of any homosexual activity, but it was obviously there from the many statements of others. It is such a big place. Of course, very few saw me standing out in front of the Furman Street buildings (just sold) with a devil's suit on in 1984. Nor did they see me with the devil there, but you can if you watch this flick:

  http://www.freeminds.org/video/lrf3.html

  Actually there are two clips that go before it:

  http://www.freeminds.org/video/lrf1.html

  and

  http://www.freeminds.org/video/lrf2.html

  More stuff you never saw at Bethel:

  http://www.freeminds.org/video/culthumor.html

  Randy Watters

  http://www.randyTV.com

  By the way, the book is advertised at:

  http://www.freeminds.org/sales/books.htm
• 

  Buster

  I just ordered it from Randy. (Thanks for the link, Dogpatch)