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I have cut and pasted the article - but here is the argument in a nutshell. E-watchman claims that Jehovah has staked everything on the 144000 being faithful. Ergo, he is claiming that the 144000 are predestined to success, or rather, if even one of these pre-selected saps is made to stumble, then the whole deal of the ransom and redemption is off.
Therefore, he is asserting that ALL of the 144,000 have remained "faithful". Not one of them, throughout history, has ever stumbled. Bullshit. Not only are they imperfect, there is clear indication that some of them HAVE turned to the dark side, as it were, and now eagerly seek to stumble and abuse their "brothers".
E-bullshitter might claim that only after the "sealing" does Jehovah's guarantee go into effect, but that is nonsense. Will these pretentious fools start glowing in the dark one day, or their faces emitting horns, or will they roll around on the ground "acting like prophets?" There is no "sealing" except that in the Roman times, John was talking about death from Roman Imperial persecution. He talked about it a lot.
So, we can see that e-watchman is full of shit. Leave Revelation alone, little boy, you don't know what you are talking about.
This e-watchman has overreached himself, and presumes to interpret the whole Bible for us. Screw him. He lies.
CZAR
Dear Watchman. I have several related questions. How do we know that the number 144,000 - whether literal or not - refers to the entire number of those who have been anointed since the 1st century and not merely to the number of those LIVING anointed who are FINALLY sealed as faithful, DURING THE END? Revelation 7 says "do not harm the earth...until after we have sealed" the anointed. So the context is the final sealing (presumably) of the living anointed at this time, is it not? However, the next verse continues: "And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000". Does this mean that the number who will be sealed after having proved faithful AT THIS TIME will be 144,000 and that, consequently, the total number of anointed ones gathered since the 1st century could be very much larger? I understand that a resurrection of the anointed may have occurred by this time, but, were these resurrected ones not sealed earlier, either before or at death or BEFORE their resurrection, as symbolized by their being given the white robes of Rev 6:9-11? This leads to my final question. Verse four of Rev.7 says that 144,000 were sealed "out of" each tribe of Israel. This is the FINAL sealing, so would it not be the case that those who are finally sealed at this time are taken "out of" - from among - spiritual Israel, meaning that these 144,000 are the "chosen" NOT the total number of the anointed "called" ones alive at that time? |
| The 14 th chapter of Revelation also mentions 144,000. It depicts them as standing on top of Mount Zion with Jesus. It further goes on to say that only the 144,000 could master the song so as to ultimately qualify reign with Jesus. So, that's pretty clear. All anointed persons have to be sealed with Jehovah's stamp of approval before they die. As an example, Paul wrote to the Philippians saying that he did not consider himself as having laid hold on the prize, but he was pursuing the upward call to see if he might attain it. However, several years later Paul wrote to Timothy saying that he felt he had as good as received his reward. In other words he had been sealed. 2 nd Timothy 4:6-8 says: "For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the due time for my releasing is imminent. I have fought the fine fight, I have run the course to the finish, I have observed the faith. From this time on there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me as a reward in that day, yet not only to me, but also to all those who have loved his manifestation." So, all of the 144,000 are sealed before their deaths. In the case of 1 st Century Christians they were individually given Jehovah's seal of approval at some point during their earthly course?even as Paul described above. But, the sealing described in Revelation the 7 th chapter is foretelling a mass sealing of all the remaining sons of the kingdom during the tribulation. That's also when the resurrection of the holy ones takes place. So, those who died prior to Christ's arrival, but who were sealed, are resurrected nearly simultaneously as when the sealing of the remaining sons who are still alive. That's why Revelation pictures the entire body as being sealed. The purpose of this final sealing of the remaining living saints is that it presents the Devil with an irresistible temptation. That's because the final sealing means that Jehovah is not going to do any more anointing?no more replacements. The sealing means that God is staking his entire purpose to the integrity of the remaining sealed individuals. No doubt this is what is likened to putting hooks in Satan's jaws and luring him to his own doom. From Satan's perspective, though, it looks like a sure thing; all he has to do is force just one of the remaining sealed sons to be unfaithful to Jehovah and he wins. After all, a kingdom made up of 143,999 would mean that Jehovah lied. And keep in mind that Satan originally boasted that he could turn any creature away from God if he were allowed to really bring the pressure. So, Jehovah gives him one last shot at the remnant of the 144,000. Of course, we know they will prove faithful to the death; but, this is what has to be played out for the record. That's why the 144,000 is a real number. Jehovah stakes his entire name and reputation on his ability to create a people who will prove faithful to him down to the last individual. By giving the exact number of those who will be faithful, Jehovah even stacks the deck against himself; in order to prove with finality that Satan is a gross liar and a colossal loser. |
e-watchman stumbles!
by czarofmischief 5 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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czarofmischief
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Undaunted Danny
Danny Jeers e-watchman: Growing up JW i was instilled with childhood terror never to disrespect a member of the "anointed". Danny sez: [[ 2 Kings 2 E-watchman Is Jeered
23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you [anointed] baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" ]]]
2 Kings 2 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. 25 And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria. The rural state of Maine is just loaded with "she bears" come and get me... -
imallgrowedup
From Satan's perspective, though, it looks like a sure thing; all he has to do is force just one of the remaining sealed sons to be unfaithful to Jehovah and he wins. After all, a kingdom made up of 143,999 would mean that Jehovah lied.
Czar - I see yet another side to this:
So e-watchman believes that God is capable of LYING?! After all these years as a Witness, this man still does not understand the nature of God? Better yet, he is unable to recognize that when LYING is involved, so is Satan? What is Satan's hallmark trait? LYING!!!!!
*shakes head*
growedup
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czarofmischief
What a maroon.
Don't worry about those she-bears, danny boy, they can't do piss against a twelve guage.
CZAR
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justhuman
thats sad
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drwtsn32
Who is this e-watchman dude anyway?
