by closer2fine 7 Replies latest jw friends
Can anyone recommend a book that point by point shuts down all of JW's beliefs? My dad has all of the org's lessons memorized and I need something to help me stand up for myself. I'm hoping the book will be recent & encompass the changes made (1914, voting, etc.)
Your help is appreciated!!!
it depends upon your father
1. if he is a Society Man -----then you are wasting your time "AT THIS TIME" perhaps later but now it is a waste of time
2. a person who has expressed soem concerns about the direction that jw seem to be going either locally or as an org
one of the most important qualities needed in any disussion is the need to be reasonable- typically your avg jw is much like a bank ATM Machine 3rd try on the wrong pin number and it shuts down
same with most jw as soon as thier APOSTATE DETECTOR goes off they shut down
so NO AMOUNT OF PROOF OR EVIDENCE WITH CHANGE A THING
AS YOU STATED "auguing with a jw" and that is the very first mistake
YOU NEVER WASTE TIME ARGUING WITH A JW
IF THEY are not reasonble to examine ANYTHING then you have lost before you even get started.
but one of the best ways is to stay off topic too hot LIKE BLOOD
a good one IN my view is Organ TRANSPLANTS- flipflop to show how god was suppose to have provided the very first NEW LIGHT on the matter then he is supposed to have changed light bulbs and now they have NEW NEW LIGHT
but keep in mind you will catch more flies with honey than vinagar
i would NEVER BE THE ONE TO START THE CONVERSATION ON WT ISSUES
And if they started i would start out treading very very lightly cause the worst thing you can do is SHUT THEM DOWN alsways remember it is harder to try and reopen up the dissussion with a shut down jw than to give them a little and just increase the doses each time
just a suggestion
james
Thanks,
He is a "company" man(elder,PO, etc). Now when they bring stuff up about why I haven't attended in awhile (10 yrs) I just shut down. I don't say anything. Whenever I try to defend myself he has 5 scriptures telling me why I'm wrong. I just thought if I had a few conversation stoppers for him - they would get off my back. I don't want them to view me as "apostate" - only because I want my family in my life - if only alittle!!
closer.
I recommend one of two things.
1. Avoid religious discussions completely and just enjoy the family association and discussion about family topics.
2. Use questions rather than statements. They are not as argumentative and sometimes make the person with the opposing viewpoint think. I have used this on my dad at times. Questions like, weren't there 144,000 faithful people way before 1935, etc.
They usually make him change the subject himself since he really doesn't have the answers.
peace
Joel
I'm working on combining Deut. 18:20-22 with the WT that directly says that the Society are prophets. Then bring up 1975, then the "generation" change as examples of failed prophecies.
I think that is a good one, two punch that will shut them up and end up rolling around in their heads for a couple of years.
Slipnslidemaster: "The truth is more important than the facts."
- Frank Lloyd Wright
hmmmmm...where have I heard that before?
Hello closer2fine,
I'm with Joel on this one, if you feel the need to discuss the spiritual side or are forced into it, then keep it to questions.
Was it Socrates that taught the best way to argue a point is to ask questions? I think it was. Anyway it really doesn't matter who said it, just use it and I'm sure you'll gain some headway. Do not expect anything to happen... simply prove, by your actions, to them that the WTBTS teachings about us "apostates" is wrong.
Best of luck to you!
It's pointless to argue scripture with a JW. They think they've got a special slant and understanding on everything and can slime around any argument. I've found it's much better to challenge them in areas where they're vulnerable.
1. The nature of the God they worship: a primitive, tribal god that has every human failure writ large.
2. The impossibiity of comporting that god with the father that Jesus described.
3. Get to know, inside and out, Hoffer's "The True Believer" about the psychological makeup of cults and cult followers and apply what you learn to the JWs. Believe me it fits like a glove.
4. Get a list of ALL the failed prophecies of the JWs. It's on the net and it's huge. Harp on that in combination with Deut 18:22.
This will work better than trying to shut them down on their ingrained arguments.
Francois
My $0.02
Do the same things JW's do. Tell them you will do a little research and then get back to them. Make sure you write down the argument as clearly as you can and have them verify that what you wrote down states the argument to their satisfaction. Try to put the argument down in a SINCE (premise) --THEREFORE (conclusion) format.
Here are some examples:
SINCE the only birthdays mentioned in the Bible were celebrated by pagans and involved murder THEREFORE it is wrong for Christians to celebrate birthdays.
SINCE Acts 15 says "abstain from blood" THEREFORE Christians ought to avoid the use of blood at all cost even their life.
Then come back on line and we'll get you some rebuttals.
