Only one God? How many Lords are there then?

by grzesiek32 2 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  grzesiek32

  I developped one of my articles that was presented here:
  

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/63589/1.ashx

  To cut a long story short...

  There is one verse that non-trinitarians like most, because it says about both Jesus and "The only God". Have a look at this:
  
  1 Cor 8:5-6
  for even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven, whether upon earth -- as there are gods many and lords many -- yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
  (NIV)

  If they claim, that The Father is the only God and in this way Jesus isn't God, let them be consistent!!! If Jesus cannot be God then Father cannot be Lord, because Lord is only one, and Jesus is this Lord! (See also Jude 1,4)

  But what to say about this:

  Ps 8:1
  1. O Jehovah our Lord, how majestic your name is in all the earth, You whose dignity is recounted above the heavens!
  (NWT)
  
  This fragment (1 Cor 8,6) that is considered by some non-trinitarians as the best evidence against trinity, in reality, is one of the best eveidence showing equality between the Father and the Son. The true significance of this verse is clear: Jesus is such Lord as His Father is God. Both of them are contrasted with gods and lords in relative meaning. Let's notice a very imprtant issue. For those people living in that time "Lord" in the absolute sense meant "JHVH"! And sucg Lord is called Jesus in this fragment. So, this verse poses a problem to non-trinitarians, not to trinitarians. They reject the conception of the trinity because its matematical notation contradicts common sense (1 God + 1 God + 1 God = 1 God), so let them explain such notation: (1 Lord + 1 Lord = 1 Lord), because Lord is only one (Ef 4,5 i 1 Kor 12,5), but Jesus is "one Lord" (1 Cor 8.6) and JHVH is Lord as well (Ps 8,1; Mk 12,29). Is JHVH our Lord in a relative meaning? If so, Jesus is His Lord (Rev 17,14; 19,16).
  
  Regards

  Greg Zebrowski (Poland)
• 

  hooberus

  The verse also demonstrates the eternity of both the Father and the Son. If all things are of one person and through another person, then both of these persons must have existed before all things. Neither person can thus be a thing. Hense both the Father and the Son pre-existed all things.

  Non-Trinitarians sometimes attempt to make an argument about all things being "of" the Father but "only" "through" the Son. However this fails to understand that the various members of the Trinity can have different roles (for example in creation and redemption), yet despite different roles they have the same nature. For example a husband and wife have different roles in parenting, yet both are equal by nature.

  Also, a comparison of 1 Cor. 8:5-6 with Romans 11:36 is powerful. In Romans 11:36 all things are "of" and "through" Jehovah. In 1 Cor 8:5-6 all things are "of" the Father and "through" the Son (which means that both the Father and Son are Jehovah.)
• 

  zen nudist

  trinitarian arguements are often out of context, but this is just plain lame.... the term Lord is equal to our term mister, notice how Paul addressing someone he does not recognize as god, but as a stranger... as Jesus knocked him off his ass.... Paul said, who are you lord?

  it was a common term of respect, and yes you could say the absolute Lord would be YHWH, but any King sitting upon his throne as David or even Jesus would be Lord in the sense of one deserving respect and honor in the name of God.

  Paul in Corinthians is clearly contrasting pagan god[s] and pagan lords which presumably would be the humans claiming to be sons of God on earth and those who are considered in power by the will of their god[s]...

  the best anti-trinitarian verse is the one where Paul says that GOD subjected all things to Jesus, and Paul feels the need to clarify that this is with the obvious exception to God himself... and that when Jesus has subjected all things to himself, he will THEN turn it all over to his father so that God may be God [once again as before the fall one would assume?] over all and to all...

  how trinitarians can so easily blind themselves to the utter stupidity of this passage if their position is correct and Jesus IS GOD, is beyond my comprehension.

  not to mention other equally obvious statements such as WE are heirs of God and Joint heirs WITH christ....

  that Jesus' father is our father, and his God is OUR God... as he told Mary after the ressurection and told her to declare the goodnews to his followers that he would return to "my God and YOUR God"

  and Paul who told the pagans that GOD appointed a MAN to judge the world....a people who would be more receptive to trinitarian silliness then the jews ever would.