Did God establish His Covenant with the Gentile Nations or the Jews?

sowhatnow

im not sure where to post this but i think its telling

not long but read it closely i get a bit confused on the latter half

the question is did God establish his covenant with the gentile nations or the Jews.. [though i have read from a jewish web source, that the jews have nothing to do with Israel and the greek scriptures or half the Hebrew scriptures ]

http://articles.faithwriters.com/reprint-article-details.php?article=13349

the way i understand it it that no one other than Israel has a covenant with God and it is still in effect basically

it is the gentiles who choose to join Israel and their covenant who are then taken into consideration. not those who stay apart from that nation. also there is no symbolism apparently, its to be taken literal. other than the obvious literary symbolism.

WTWizard

Supposedly, it was only for Jews including proselytes. Yet, many of the things the washtowel is advocating insinuates that it is for them, as if they were trying to be Israelites. And this simply creates a psychic link between Israel and the nations, which is fairly easy to research what Israel is trying to do with the nations using your own search engine.

Now, do you wish to belong to a religion that, while professing to be xian, is so obsessed with Israel? Or that insinuates that Israeli law is in effect for everyone, no matter what? I don't think so--whether the insinuation is through words or their actions.

leaving_quietly

Not all Israel were considered Jews. The Jews were of the two-tribe kingdom (Judah and Benjamin) and the rest of Israel were the other ten tribes. When Jesus was at the well talking to a Samaritan woman, she hinted at what the problem was between Jews and Samaritans:

Our forefathers worshipped on this mountain, but you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where people must worship. (John 4:20)

However, Jesus affirmed something: salvation begins with the Jews (John 4:22)

Why could he say that? Because the covenant with Abraham was not the same as the covenant with Israel. The covenant with Abraham is that he would be father to many nations. (Gen 17:2) The covenant with Israel is mainly about the lineage to the Messiah would coming through him. Even before that covenant was in place, Jacob (Israel) called his sons to him and prophesied that the scepter would come through Judah. (Gen 49:10) Christ was from the tribe of Judah. (Matt 1:3;Luke 3:33).

Christ was sent to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel", and the apostles focused on these. But, Paul was sent to the nations, the "Gentiles".

When the blood of the covenant was poured out, that is, when Christ was executed, the new covenant went into effect. At that time, there was no consideration of the Gentiles. So, that covenant was specifically with Israel.

However, after Christ was raised, this happened:

Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” (Matt 28:18-20)

Why did he say that? Remember, Christ was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matt 15:24) He did not attempt to preach to any Gentiles. At John 10:16, though, he said he had "other sheep" that he must bring in. But then was not the time. It was only after his resurrection that he extended the grace of God to the nations. Why? Because he wanted to. Matt 28:18: "All authority has been given me...Go, therefore..."

Other passages to consider: Gal 3:26-29; Rom 1:16-18; Eph 2:11-22; all of Romans 11

sowhatnow

ok to the nitty gritty,

so what were the things Jesus said to 'observe' and commanded him to do that he was to preach? if Jesus was only a messiah for Israel,

did Jesus not observe the law code? was this what paul was to 'observe' as well, and then teach to the others, as then the gentiles who chose to follow the teachings of Christ are attached as 'branches'?

the other sheep were to be brought IN to the fold correct?

outside are the dogs....

Jonathan Drake

Look at Romans 9:1-7. Here Paul expresses regret over the Israelites refusal to except Christ, and he says that, "not all who descend from Israel are really Israel" this is because their covenant was broken, they refused rhe messiah and the promise now goes to all nations.

look too at verses 30, 31, he further states that people of the nations, "though not pursuing righteousness, attained righteousness, the righteousness that results from faith" but contrasts that with literal Israelites saying, "but Israel, although pursuing a law of righteousness, did not attain to that law." He then says that they had no faith (because they denied Christ) and that they stumbled over the law instead of excepted the one who fulfilled the law.

So throughout this entire chapter, Paul is making the point that the Jews lost their special position with God when they denied the one who fulfilled the law. And shows that because of this the promise now was extended to all nations, even those who are not descendants of Israel, aka Jacob.(verse 6).

leaving_quietly

This boils down to two questions: What are Christ's commandments? Are we still under the Law today?

The first one is interesting, because Christ boiled the law down to two main commandments: 1) Love God with your whole heart, mind and soul, 2) Love your neighbor as yourself. (Matt 22:37-39) He also gave a "new commandment": I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. (John 13:34)

There are plenty of other "commandments". Just do a Google search on "what are Christ's commandments". You'll find plenty. These aren't talked about in great detail throughout the rest of the NT, although "love your neighbor as yourself" seems the be the one with the most amount of attention.

Rom 13:9,10: For the law code, “You must not commit adultery, you must not murder, you must not steal, you must not covet,” and whatever other commandment there is, is summed up in this saying: “You must love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does not work evil to one’s neighbor; therefore, love is the law’s fulfillment.

Rom 15:2: Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to build him up.

Gal 5:13,14: You were called to freedom, brothers; only do not use this freedom as an opportunity to pursue fleshly desires, but through love slave for one another. 14 For the entire Law has been fulfilled in one commandment, namely: “You must love your neighbor as yourself.

James 2:8: If, now, you carry out the royal law according to the scripture, “You must love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing quite well.

1 John 3:21-23: Beloved ones, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have freeness of speech toward God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we are observing his commandments and doing what is pleasing in his eyes. 23 Indeed, this is his commandment: that we have faith in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he gave us a commandment.

Now, as for the question, "are we under Law", I hesitate to get into this because it is a hotly debated topic, but here are some relevant passages.

Matt 5:17-20: “Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 Truly I say to you that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one stroke of a letter to pass away from the Law until all things take place. 19 Whoever, therefore, breaks one of these least commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in relation to the Kingdom of the heavens. But whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in relation to the Kingdom of the heavens. 20 For I say to you that if your righteousness does not surpass that of the scribes and the Pharisees, you will by no means enter into the Kingdom of the heavens.

Christ didn't come to "observe" the Law, but to fulfill it. The Greek word for "fulfill" is plerosai (Strong's 4137), which means "I fill, fulfill, complete". Christ came to fulfill, or complete the Law, not end it, but make it complete.

Luke 16:16 - The Law and the Prophets were until John. From then on, the Kingdom of God is being declared as good news, and every sort of person is pressing forward toward it.

Other passages that relate: Romans 7:3-6, all of Galatians 3; 2 Cor 3:7-14; all of Hebrews, but particularly 8:13-10:10

Hope this helps.

Jonathan Drake

Oh also thisnis one place it's importsnt to see a distinction between the mosaic law and the ten commamdments. They aren't the same thing.

christ abolished the mosaic law, which was the judicial decrees including needing to make atonement sacrifice. He died once for all men's atonement, hence he abolished the law requiring the sacrifices and all the observances.

However, the Ten Commandments were directly from God and not through Moses. They were never abolished. (I.e., it's still not right to steal another's wife or kill someone)

(This is meant for consideration along with the post by living Quietly)

Jeffro

Did God establish His Covenant with the Gentile Nations or the Jews?

No.

Well... that was easy.

sowhatnow

well then, thanks all, for the 'easier understanding' of that ,lol.

now that i see that for me it makes no difference, ill simply apply the go to phrase

love your neighbor as yourself.

Did God establish His Covenant with the Gentile Nations or the Jews?

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