They came back and went away perplexed!

by duckie 6 Replies latest jw friends

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  duckie

  Hi

  Some of you may remember my post about sending a couple of JW's away to research 1914 (they are calling on me and do not know that I am a fade-away). They sort of did do some research (from the WTS publications, even after I specifically asked that they look into publications outside theirs).

  They came back and we did have a discussion. The 1914 question turned into a 607 question. Thanks to a post by Farkel about how easy the 607 date is sorted I had a really great visit by them. They had the "Thy Kingdom Come" and "All Scripture is Inspired" books and of course the bible, (which I had to ask that they get out). The Kingdom Come book says in the preface, that the assention of Nebuchadnezzer was 605 (however, a page or two over it says that the start of Neb's reign was 604, of course I pointed out the contridiction to them). I then directed them to 2Kings 25 8-10 where it states that Jerusalem fell in the 19th year of Neb's regin = 586/587 BCE, not 607. I said that the explanations about neo-Bablylonian tablets etc still did not change the fact that their books and the bible and every other historian points to 586/587 being the year that Jerusalem fell, and therefore making their date of 1914 (a very pivital date in their religion - as confirmed by them several times) as wrong.

  Well, then I got the whole A to A sermon. I let them finish, and then said again that really the point of my enquiry was that their important date of 1914 could not be correct as just pointed out using their books and the bible.

  They were perpexed to say the least, and they promised to go away and "research" more and come back. They are both very nice people, I do not hope to "slam dunk" them, just to get them thinking and looking into the WTS. I look forward to their return.

  And Farkel, thanks, I could not have done it without you. Your post was great, easy to use and very effective.

  Duckie
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  bikerchic

  Hey duckie good job! Doing your homework pays off eh? I'll ve interested to hear your next installment of their return after they've done their homework.

  Kate
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  duckie

  Thanks bikerchic, I do not hold out much hope that they will actually do "research" outside the WTS publications, but you never know. The look on the wife's face was one of confusion, she was really struggling. He husband (who I think is an elder) just launched into the standard A to A, I really do not think that he is a very deep thinker at all, just the standard shallow JW BS, just a veil of learnt WTS cliches, he gets very defensive and quite loud when he cannot explain a clear contridiction of WTS beliefs.

  Duckie
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  seeitallclearlynow

  Good job duckie!

  he gets very defensive and quite loud when he cannot explain a clear contridiction of WTS beliefs.

  Duckie

  LOL!
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  shotgun

  Cool stuff Duckie

  It's annnoying that they'll sit and discuss it with you thinking you are a possible convert but if you were a dub with doubts they would dismiss your thoughts and reasoning as apostate.

  Same thoughts, same arguments, just a different view of the presenter...that may happen yet if you seem to well informed or if they think you have found info on the net....beware the voice of strangers and all.
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  El blanko

  It's annnoying that they'll sit and discuss it with you thinking you are a possible convert but if you were a dub with doubts they would dismiss your thoughts and reasoning as apostate.

  Damn right. If you wear the JW badge and raise such issues, one tends to get a bullet to the head straight away.

  The thing is, even if a study raises these issues it is rare that they will be internally considered, as the JW mindset considers itself to be correct from the outset. There really is no debate, aside from surface etiquette.

  I know, I've been there!

  I tried to discuss issues with a friend and brother last year (and he has no real idea of my status - me being the fader that I was/am). He basically cut me off after what I considered to be an open and honest discussion about the society.

  The irony being, that this brother was in a disfellowshipped state at the time and I allowed him space to exist without judgement, yet he allowed me little to no grace.

  I thought this guy was my friend and it has taken me 6 months of effort to get the lines of communication open again! The only reason I have tried is that I know his belief system is a sham based around his own insecurities and fears.

  But, it is so tiring to keep on trying.
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  Mary

  They were perpexed to say the least, and they promised to go away and "research" more and come back. I look forward to their return.

  You don't wanna hang from the end of a rope waiting for them to return..........I can almost guarantee you that they'll get some "help" from one of the elders on this. They'll search and search and search the Society's publications, but more than likely will not research any external resources. Once they reach the very uncomfortable conclusion that the 607 BCE date is in error, the defence mechanisms in their brain will start going "warning, warning, danger, danger". The elders may even suggest that they DON'T come back as you could be an "apostate". (giggle, giggle).

  That's great that you got as far as you did though. I remember years ago when someone at the door said something that I had no argument for, I'd secretly be very angry and I wouldn't go back. How stupid was I???