So 'love' is the identifying mark of 'true' christians? Well then..........

by BLISSISIGNORANCE 6 Replies latest jw friends

  • BLISSISIGNORANCE
    BLISSISIGNORANCE

    ........................dubs are NOT true christians. They use that point to prove they are and it's that very point that proves they are NOT!

    I was doing a bit of house work this morning when the phone rang. It was my daughter. She rang to wish my hubby a happy step father's day. She left home a while ago, while still very young. Trying to force the 'truth' onto her as a teenager didn't work. We had several years of estrangement but since hubby and I leaving the borg, our relationship has become strong again. After chatting about this and that we said bye and 'love you' to eachother. So simple yet can be so hard with the borg's rules.

    After getting off the phone I started thinking how much trouble we had with my 2 oldest kids (teenagers then) and how as a mother I just wanted to work with their wants and needs, to keep loving them no matter what.............while having elders and dub friends telling me to let them go because they had left jehovah!!!! It was a very sad, difficult, confusing, conflicting, frustrating, and regretful time. I remembered the scripture that tells what love is.........it's patient and kind, hopes and believes, does not insist in it's own way etc.

    On one hand dubs talk so much about love and pride themselves on possessing it collectively, on the other they are more than happy to encourage people to abandon parental, child, husband, wife, friend, sister, brother love and affection. How many of us woked hard as dubs to do the 'right' thing by the wts and shun, ignore, not associate etc.......despite our natural feelings??? I know I did, with my own children.

    I guess the up side to my experience is that now I am out of the borg and enjoy relationships with people without the judgement and conditions. Even with my own adult children I can now say that I 'show' them my love by being patient, kind, hopeful, believing and not controlling. I now don't only 'say' I love you, but hopefully prove it every day in some way.

    I know this is an old discussion point, it's been done over and over, but it was something that I thought about quite deeply this morning and wanted to share. Besides, there are always new ones joining us here and they may be interested in adding comments.

    Cheers, Bliss (of the unconditional love class)

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    On one hand dubs talk so much about love and pride themselves on possessing it collectively, on the other they are more than happy to encourage people to abandon parental, child, husband, wife, friend, sister, brother love and affection

    Bliss, You are so right that the organization, as an entity, has left the bonds of love behind. Not only that but, this love and affection for everyone is considered a responsibility that God has entrusted us with. Why don't more people see this?

    love michelle

  • rocketman
    rocketman

    You're holding to what the Bible says much more so than the jws are.

    As soon as a child doesn't quite do what they (parents, other jws) want, their kneejerk reaction is to penalize the child in some way, normally by withdrawing approval and association. All that serves to do is alienate the very person they are tryng to win over.

  • wheres caleb?
    wheres caleb?

    Good points Bliss,

    I could never turn my back on my daughter, the thought is revolting. The frustrating thing is that the JWs have their own definition of love that is the result of scriptural distortion. They show love of neighbor (house to house work). The scriptures say that Jehovah disciplines those that he loves so you can disfellowship people.

    When I was young, I thought it was profound to hear a brother pray for the brotherhood of witnesses, especially if they were experiencing hardship. I learned as I got older that praying for people that you have never met doesn't make up for treating those around you with indifference.

    I got tired of their excuses for their lack of love. Things being attributed to those who had works (ministry) but their actions towards their own brothers showed no real understanding of Christ's example. When we are judged, I doubt the excuses that witnesses are well known for will satisfy.

  • Funchback
    Funchback

    I left the JW's just over (1) year ago. One of the first things I did was ask as many non-JW's as possible (such as co-workers) what is the first thing they think of when I say "Jehovah's Witnesses". I would usually phrase my question like this: "When you think of Jehovah's Witnesses, what do you know them for?". My point for asking this question was because I wanted to prove to myself that, DESPITE the WT claim that JW's are known worldwide for their love, JW's ARE NOT known for their supposed love by ANYONE that I asked. WITHOUT FAIL, I received three answers from the 30+ people I posed that question to. Answer ONE was: "Waking me up early in the morning". Answer TWO was: "Selling the Watchtower". Answer THREE was: "They refuse to take blood."

  • La Capra
    La Capra

    The lack of love was my primary reason for leaving in 1987. And since I knew the doctrine was a total crock, staying in for the "moral support" was a losing proposition. If I was going to spit out a bunch of ridiculous drivel, I figured I might as well enjoy it. But I was lucky. When I left, my mom amd her step-sister were the only other baptized JWs in our immediate family, so I wasn't giving up familial love (my mom didn't know what that meant back then anyway).

    Shoshana

  • sf
    sf

    Hi BLISS,

    I was just reading an old post by Norm from an old forum. Wanted to make sure some new ones see it and refresh it for some oldtimers too. It is a great post (as, in my opinion, all of his contributions are) on the topic of Watchtower Love. Enjoy!!:

    http://www.freeminds.org/h2o/300725.html

    Posted by N.H. [Pravo] on November 29, 2000 at 02:26:50 {MqiH7S5EbUdhIjSXPymAX.sgIvMbfw}:

    Jehovah's Witnesses and the concept of Love.

    Jehovah's Witnesses like so many other ”Christians” talk a whole lot about ”love”.
    The Watchtower magazine even claim that Jehovah's Witnesses are the ONLY ones who have the “RIGHT” kind of love, whatever that might be:

    “JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES are unique in ever so many ways. They alone speak the “pure language.” (Zephaniah 3:9) Only they are united, having the distinguishing mark of love described by Jesus Christ.”
    The Watchtower. January 15. 1992. Page 24

    “Only in the spiritual paradise, among Jehovah’s Witnesses, can we find the self-sacrificing love Jesus said would identify his true disciples.”
    The Watchtower. March 15. 1986. Page 20.

    This can hardly be considered a modest claim by any standard. Anyone making such categorical statements must of course be held to an extremely high standard when we talk about love. Do Jehovah's Witnesses live up to such a standard? Let us find out.

    What is this unique love that only Jesus and Jehovah's Witnesses possess? As we can see from the above quotes this love supposedly originates with Jesus, and we know that according to the Bible, Jesus was willing to die for the whole of mankind. Already here, we find the first serious flaw in the bold statements from Brooklyn. Because according to Watchtower doctrine, Jesus didn’t die for mankind, but only for 144.000 of said mankind. So if taking this quite unbiblical doctrine serious, Jesus love is already seriously limited.

    When reading the Watchtower one quickly discovers that the love of Jehovah's Witnesses mostly extends only to their own fellow believers, anyone outside the Watchtower organization is only interesting as a possible convert, otherwise they are considered bad association. Is it a sign of love, to consider ordinary human beings that happen not to be Jehovah's Witnesses bad company? Or are such attitudes betraying other not quite so lofty ideals? The fact that this unique love really only includes the love of their fellow believers is made quite clear several times in the Watchtower.

    “Who have unbreakable love for their spiritual brothers and sisters all over the earth and unity with them? Who really trust in Jehovah and invite others to do the same? The facts of our time show that the answer can only be: Jehovah’s Witnesses.” The Watchtower, April 15. 1988, page 19.

    “Furthermore, “this remarkable unity, to be observed only among Jehovah’s Witnesses throughout the earth today,” declared the speaker, “is one of the rewarding benefits that they enjoy due to giving prior allegiance to God’s kingdom and following its law of love.”The Watchtower, October 15. 1977, page 611.

    In this Jehovah's Witnesses faithfully imitate ancient Israel and the law, where only other Jews was considered to be their “fellow man”. Killing fellow Jews was bad but non Jewish people was fair game. The law regulated sexual behaviour towards Jewish women but non Jewish women was free game, etc.
    The really sad thing is that not even this is love as we usually think about it. When you read the Watchtower you can see that this alleged unity seem to be regarded as the prime proof, the ultimate sign of this incredible “love” which is so unique for Jehovah's Witnesses. The “unity” which receives such prize here is, as we know, in reality conformity. This is demonstrated every time people are DF’d because they fail to conform to the Brooklyn doctrine. Real love would of course exist even where disagreement on certain issues was a fact. It is thus easy to see that this is at best a horribly conditional kind of love. Real love cannot be turned on and off, depending on the person’s religious views. If you really do love someone, you wouldn’t shun him/her on the order of some old men in Brooklyn whom you have never seen or even met? Yet we know that this is the case in thousands of instances, where people have treated their mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers and friends in this horrible manner based on such a flimsy reason. If anything, this alone is a roaring testimony to the complete lack of love and compassion of the Watchtower Society in particular and also on part of the individual Jehovah's Witness. In this sense the love of the Jehovah's Witnesses are indeed unique, it is a switch on/off “love”, and really only unique in it’s perversion of the very word.

    Another quite remarkable thing about this is that the very observance of the Bible regarding such matters is Jesus own words that love among “each other” is no big deal, because even the “people of the nations” was capable of such basic feelings. The sad truth in the matter is as the facts show that Jehovah's Witnesses isn’t even capable of this basic feeling. Their association with and adherence to the completely perverted ideas of the Watchtower Society has even taken away their basic humanity. In Brooklyn they have disregarded Jesus words below in every possible way.

    *** Rbi8 Matthew 5:43-48 ***
    “YOU heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU; that YOU may prove yourselves sons of YOUR Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. For if YOU love those loving YOU, what reward do YOU have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? And if YOU greet YOUR brothers only, what extraordinary thing are YOU doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? YOU must accordingly be perfect, as YOUR heavenly Father is perfect.

    With this quote from the Bible in mind, let us see how this holds up when Brooklyn has been working on it for a while. Jehovah's Witnesses is extreme when it comes to pushing their religion on others. This of course makes them want to be treated politely and they would like so much to be met by people with “an open mind”. This is made abundantly clear in the next quote:

    “The book then raises the logical question. “Is it reasonable to assume that the religion imposed at one’s birth is necessarily the whole truth?” Thus, every person is encouraged to examine other religions with an open mind. As is stated on page 10: “Understanding one another’s viewpoint can lead to more meaningful communication and conversation between people of different faiths.” It continues: “True, people may strongly disagree about their religious beliefs, but there is no basis for hating a person just because he or she holds a different viewpoint.”—Matthew 5:43, 44.” The Watchtower, April 1. 1991, page 17.

    This is very true, wouldn’t we all like to be met in such a manner? I particularly like the part about “understanding” and “meaningful communication”. But this statement really is deserving of an upper case quote:

    “TRUE, PEOPLE MAY STRONGLY DISAGREE ABOUT THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, BUT THERE IS NO BASIS FOR HATING A PERSON JUST BECAUSE HE OR SHE HOLDS A DIFFERENT VIEWPOINT.”

    Well folks, we of course all understand that this is how Jehovah's Witnesses want to be met when they are out in the field service. We ourselves would of course like to be met like this by the Jehovah's Witness apologist’s right here on H2O. But it is quite incredible isn’t it? Here we have a cult, which actually teach in no uncertain manner that having a different viewpoint from the Watchtower doctrine is not only a cause for compulsory HATE, but also a legitimate reason to declare a death sentence over 99,9% of mankind!!! It boggles the imagination how anyone can read things like this without getting seriously nauseated. Is there no end to the hypocrisy and double standard in Brooklyn?

    Lets have a fresh look at how Jehovah's Witnesses are supposed to view those who dare “hold a different viewpoint” from Brooklyn. Do they have a “basis of hating a person just because” of that? Lets see:

    "Apostasy is, in reality, a rebellion against Jehovah. Some apostates profess to know and serve God, but they reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others claim to believe the Bible, but they reject Jehovah’s organization and actively try to hinder its work. When they deliberately choose such badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of, their makeup, then a Christian must hate (in the Biblical sense of the word) those who have inseparably attached themselves to the badness. True Christians share Jehovah’s feelings toward such apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas. On the contrary, they ‘feel a loathing’ toward those who have made themselves God’s enemies,…" The Watchtower October 1, 1993 p.19.

    Brooklyn is painting with their largest brush here and in a sweeping generalization just states as an established fact that everyone who dares disagree with Brooklyn, has badness, “ingrained as an inseparable part of, their makeup” and such persons should be HATED! Nowhere do we see any mention of “there is no basis for hating a person just because he or she holds a different viewpoint.” On the contrary, s/he should be hated!

    Then in other Watchtower’s you find more totally contradictory “window dressing” statements like this:

    "WILL HATRED EVER END"
    "And even though it may be unreasonable, or ‘crazy,’ the hatred is
    often directed against a whole group" Watchtower June 15, 1995 p.3.

    Some times one wonders if nobody reads the Watchtower Magazine in the writing department in Brooklyn. As a monument of the kind of love the Watchtower Society have for their fellow man I will once again bring a blockbuster quote from the FDS in Brooklyn. Read it and feel how the Watchtower Society “LOVE” flows from every word:

    “Shortly, the great tribulation will suddenly break out, moving quickly to a climax in “the war of the great day of God the Almighty.” (Revelation 16:14, 16) It will reach a crescendo as Jehovah destroys this system of things and the figurative table at which the world’s nations have been feeding. Jehovah will also overthrow the entire invisible organization of Satan the Devil with its hordes of demons. Those who have continued to feed at Satan’s spiritual table, the table of demons, will be forced to attend a literal meal, no, not as partakers, but as the main course—to their destruction! — See Ezekiel 39:4; Revelation 19:17, 18.”
    Watchtower July 1. 1994, page 13.

    When you have finished reading about the love orgy Brooklyn style above, then read the next quote and see if you can make any sense of it:

    "Yes, the international society of Jehovah’s Witnesses is living proof that hatred can be abolished." "It is a foreglimpse of a worldwide program to eliminate hatred and it’s causes." Watchtower, June 15, 1995, p.8.

    Seem to me that if hatred is ever to be abolished one have a lot of very hard work to do, starting with some of the worst haters of them all, Jehovah's Witnesses!

    Norm.

    ______________

    sKally

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