Sound Bites from BRCI #2 of 3

by Amazing 8 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    In response to the account shared in Sound Bite #1, one former JW who is very active in the ex-JW work, asked a former Bethelite if these GB men, and others in responsible positions, are at all concerned about the flock they publish literature to. This was asked in response to some of the accounts given about how they deal with issues and eventually publish their finished products.

    The former Bethelite had to admit that they really didn't care, even when they knew that published policy and material was not right. Not they they were totally uncaring, but felt helpless because they just see themselves as 'cogs' in a big organizational machine. They are afraid to exhibit vision for fear it will look out of place. (Much like what AlanF just described in his post.) They privately admit they do not agree with all that is taught and published, but feel that they have to defer to the organization.

    The Point: This is why the WTS has fallen into stagnation, and on 'autopilot' as AlanF noted. They have nothing left at the top with which to do anything about the organization. It is a blind mechanical operation, where this lifeless thing they believe is the 'truth' does not have a proper noun or name. That is why JWs will ask, "Do you believe that 'IT' is the Truth. To which I respond, 'IT' did not die for my salvation, and therefore, 'IT' cannot be the truth, especially knowing how emasculated these men at the top really are. - Amazing

  • Fredhall
    Fredhall

    Amazing,

    It seems to me that you don't care too.

  • Had Enough
    Had Enough

    Hello Amazing:

    I was very glad I attended the conference. I would have like to have heard these experiences too but time only allowed me one day there.

    I have some thoughts and questions as a result of some of the discussions that I'll perhaps be able to ask you another time.

    I do wonder about the question about these GB men, and others in responsible positions about "are they at all concerned about the flock they publish literature to?" The former Bethelite had to admit

    that they really didn't care, even when they knew that published policy and material was not right. Not they they were totally uncaring, but felt helpless because they just see themselves as 'cogs' in a big organizational machine.

    I wonder, surely they go into Bethel with good intentions. When does this 'not caring' overtake them? and how could they stay and continue to bend to the powers-that-be if they have a first hand view of the hypocrisy and burdens being placed on the "sheep"?

    I realize it was said they feel helpless...like cogs etc. but how can they cave in like that? Am I missing something?

    I realize many of us stayed on as pubs for sometimes many years while knowing there was something wrong but for me,I blamed myself for a lack of strong spirituality and discouragement...AND...we did not have the "birdseye view" that these GB members have of the overall structure of the org. We did not know details of the deceipt and outright erroneous teachings. How can they stay on, seeing these things happening up front, knowing the details?

    I know many of the Bethelites couldn't stay, and have left and all the more credit to them. But it baffles me how anyone, with a "trained conscience", as we all were taught to have (them included), could stomach the garbage going on (that we the ordinary "joes" would never have thought possible) and still pump out the daily drivel and deceipt.

    I just don't get it!! How can they sleep at night?

    Had Enough

  • MuzicmanCa
    MuzicmanCa

    To anyone:

    I was just wondering what BRCI stood for...what is it???

    Muzicman

  • MuzicmanCa
    MuzicmanCa

    To anyone:

    I was just wondering what BRCI stood for...what is it???

    Muzicman

  • Had Enough
    Had Enough

    Hey MuzicmanCa:

    BRCI stands for "Biblical Research and Commentary International" and is an association mostly of former JWs formed in 1983.

    You can see what they're all about at their website http://www.brci.org

    It's really helpful to those leaving or who have left the borg.

    Had Enough
    (edited for braindead spelling and word omissions-duh)

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi HadEnough: Enjoyed meeting you at BRCI. I arrived late and missed the opening Session. But, I was able to enjoy some vsisiting Friday night. I invited two other BRCI 'officials' LOL to have a 'drink' with me in the lounge. Both were former Bethelites. We had a beer. While sitting there, several more former Bethelites joined us. And that is how the discussion started. The only non-Bethelites were me and a sister and her husband. We asked the questions, and they answered and then expanded on what they knew.

    You noted,

    I wonder, surely they go into Bethel with good intentions. When does this 'not caring' overtake them? and how could they stay and continue to bend to the powers-that-be if they have a first hand view of the hypocrisy and burdens being placed on the "sheep"?"

    That is a great question, and almost identical to the one that the non-Bethelite sister asked. That is when it was mentioned that these men see the 'Organization' as something larger than life, kind of like 'IT' is a god. And they, the GB that is, and other people in high position, wait on the organization like every other JWs. They see themselves as mere objects in the Great "IT" and therefore are not inclined to want to cause trouble.

    The former Bethelite noted that you don't go to Bethel with any motives to change 'IT' or improve things. You go as part of the low level workers. Over the years, as you are 'conditioned' by the organization, and your circumstances, the politics, and the lifestyle, the fantasy concept of 'IT' you acquiese or mortgage your conscience to the 'Great IT', for IT becomes God.

    And then when the problems begin to outweigh the value of 'IT', some leave, and some stay to see if they can find a way to effect changes. They eventually learn that there is no changing 'IT' and they too leave in time. Others resign themselves to wait on 'IT', and become essentially emasculated in their spirits.

    You also noted,

    "I realize it was said they feel helpless ... like cogs etc. but how can they cave in like that? Am I missing something?"

    I think that there are not that many heros in history. That is why even among nations, people will tolerate very difficult conditions before some rise up and develop a following and work for change. In US history, it was a rare ocassion in history that we had many leaders and heros in place at the same time. Altough, I think that the visionaries and heros rise first, then others rise to lead, and others yet rise to help, and then many begin to follow.

    I personally think that in religious history we are witnessing perhaps one of the important events in modern times. It is not on a scale as what has happened to other religions or nations in the past, but we do seem to have Visionaries, such as Ray Franz, Jim Penton and others, and we have leaders who have risen up, and I think there are many who are being supportive, such that there is a storng movement to bring the Watch Tower into accountability, not only for its false teachings, ir bad policies, but the harm caused, such as with blood, pedophiles, and isolationism that have hurt countless JWs for decades. The time is now, and we are poised better than ever, and I hope that ex-JWs will gain more momentum to bring this to a successful conclusion. - Amazing

  • larc
    larc

    Amazing,

    Thank you for sharing your interesting conversations with the former Bethelites. Also, your analysis of why the higher ups do what they do to be part of IT is right on.

    In any organization that has someone going against the grain, the organization does its best to get rid of the offending party. I don't think anyone at Bethel would want to make waves after they saw what happened to Ray Franz. What they did was tragic, but typical of organizational life.

    This happens in all organizations, not just tight knit religious ones. It happened at least twice within General Motors, for example. They threw out Ross Perot and earlier on, they threw out John Delorean. Delorean wrote a book about his experience: "On A Clear Day You Can See General Motors."

    I think that putting "The Ogranization" in perspective makes it more understandable, but not any less tragic.

  • Had Enough
    Had Enough

    Thanks Amazing for your sound answers....none of the b.s. whitewashing....just calling it as it is.

    Yes, my thoughts were too, that ones don't go to the Bethels with changing it in their minds, as I suppose most are like I was...devoted to the org as God's channel of direction on earth, and they want to be a part of it.

    I guess I just think of how I felt when I first started to find out irrefuteable facts of the deceit and hypocrisy in their policies and the lengths they'll go to "save face", and all the errors in their doctrines and explanations of prophecies. I was totally crushed. So I guess I just expected that would have been their feelings too.

    I had to "get away" from it so I wondered how could they not want get away too. I don't mean to sound judgemental...it just seemed that would be the action to take when your foundation is shaken.

    I see what you mean though that some wanted to stay to see some change but eventuallly either just get caught up in it too or they do leave.

    But as for the GB, I guess I just hold them in a higher accountability position. They are the ones discussing together what's to be done, (or not done as in the pedophile issures), what's to be taught, enforced, or "adjusted" (as with blood).

    I do hope for the sake of those needing to see and feel justice being served, that the chipping away will cause significant damage in the "Great Tower" walls.

    Thanks Amazing,

    Had Enough

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